soudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) (12/11/90)
In article <1990Dec5.082859.2254@nntp-server.caltech.edu> mayne@sun10.scri.fsu.edu (William (Bill) Mayne) writes: >Finally, I see a lot of other unfamiliar words in this forum. >Since I am glad to learn new words and I realize that most messages >are intended for Muslims who already know them I'd appreciate >it if authors would continue to use their special vocabulary but >explanations be posted for us infidels who want to learn. This is a call to all Muslim brothers and sisters who write in this group. This is a great mean of propagating knowledge about Islam and clearing any confsion, or stereo-typing in the American and for that matter the world non-muslim community about Islam. I am an Arabic speaking muslim and I can understand all the phrases that we use in our articles, but it seams that we all forget that there are those who do not speak or know Arabic that are "listening" to us and hopefully trying to understand and learn our great religion. An Arabic word is still an Arabic word even if you transletterate (sp?) it. If you really want to get your point across then you have to talk to the people in thier own language. I am sorry if I sound so critical, but the note that Bill makes in his original post makes us look like we are trying to hide something from them by using Arabic transletteration. Any way you look at it, we are not doing a good job if a non-Arabic speaking non-Muslim can not understand what we are talking about. Bassel
bro@eunomia.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) (12/13/90)
In article <1990Dec10.212653.19135@wpi.WPI.EDU> soudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) writes: #In article <1990Dec5.082859.2254@nntp-server.caltech.edu> mayne@sun10.scri.fsu.edu (William (Bill) Mayne) writes: [...] #>Finally, I see a lot of other unfamiliar words in this forum. [...] #I am an Arabic speaking muslim and I can #understand all the phrases that we use in our articles, but it seams that we #all forget that there are those who do not speak or know Arabic that are #"listening" to us and hopefully trying to understand and learn our great #religion. The problem in part is a recognition that translation is often subtle and leads to inexact results. When Muslims discuss technical aspects of Islam, they will naturally try to be as accurate and exact as possible. This leads to the use of transliterated Arabic terms. Perhaps one solution which preserves the accuracy of using transliterated Arabic while still serving to inform readers who may not know what those terms mean is simply to include a glossary for the terms used in that article. This can appear either as a footnote style- "How much is zakat [* obligatory charity *] for a single man?"- the first time such a term appears in an article, or in a glossary that appears at the end or beginning of the article. However it appears, it should be set off in such a way to make it clear that it is explanatory and not supplementary material, hence my use of "[* *]" above. Certain words may be so common and occur so often that anyone who reads anything at all about Islam (or reads this newsgroup) will probably know or pick up quickly, making the continual use of the above techniques superfluous. However, to keep the discussion accessible to *everyone*, perhaps one of the moderators could keep a "global glossary" of words so basic that they probably don't need to be routinely translated as above. This "global glossary" could be posted once a month automatically, so that new readers could just look in past messages to find it, and so that posters know which words don't need to be translated in the above manner. Besides words, the "global glossary" could also cover some of the simple suffix-construction rules of Arabic such as : "-a, -ah, -at: feminine suffix. So `Muslimah' is `female Muslim'." An example of an article using these glossary techniques: *** Arabic uses two words that translate as "prayer": "salat" [* prayer-worship *] and "du`a" [* prayer-supplication *]. Most Americans are more familiar with salat, in which five times a day Muslims individually or in congregations pray in lines facing Mecca. Many people are not aware that the first Qiblah [* direction of prayer *] was toward Jerusalem, and Mecca was established as Qiblah only later. Du`a basically involves a Muslim who thanks Allah [* God *] and perhaps seeks the protection or aid of Allah, usually while the Muslim stands or sits with hands held together, open, facing upward, and in front of the body. Other than hand position, it closely resembles the first thing that comes to mind when Americans think of "prayer". *** Comments? Doug Monk (bro@rice.edu) Disclaimer: These views are mine, not necessarily my organization's.
soudan@iitmax.iit.edu (Bassel Soudan) (12/14/90)
In article <1990Dec13.143808.26449@wpi.WPI.EDU> bro@eunomia.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) writes: > >The problem in part is a recognition that translation is often subtle >and leads to inexact results. When Muslims discuss technical aspects >of Islam, they will naturally try to be as accurate and exact as >possible. This leads to the use of transliterated Arabic terms. I stand corrected. I ment something similar to what you are suggesting, but did not type it like I thought about it. > >Perhaps one solution which preserves the accuracy of using >transliterated Arabic while still serving to inform readers who may >not know what those terms mean is simply to include a glossary for the >terms used in that article. This can appear either as a footnote >style- "How much is zakat [* obligatory charity *] for a single man?"- >the first time such a term appears in an article, or in a glossary >that appears at the end or beginning of the article. However it >appears, it should be set off in such a way to make it clear that it >is explanatory and not supplementary material, hence my use of "[* *]" >above. > >Certain words may be so common and occur so often that anyone who >reads anything at all about Islam (or reads this newsgroup) will >probably know or pick up quickly, making the continual use of the >above techniques superfluous. However, to keep the discussion >accessible to *everyone*, perhaps one of the moderators could keep a >"global glossary" of words so basic that they probably don't need to >be routinely translated as above. This "global glossary" could be >posted once a month automatically, so that new readers could just look >in past messages to find it, and so that posters know which words >don't need to be translated in the above manner. > >Besides words, the "global glossary" could also cover some of the >simple suffix-construction rules of Arabic such as : >"-a, -ah, -at: feminine suffix. So `Muslimah' is `female Muslim'." > I second that suggestion. And I think that may be the moderator(s) can scan through each article and add(???) appropriate english translations to some of the transliterated Arabic words within brackets. Any suggestions?? Bassel