paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (12/12/90)
Elizabeth says, in part... > Subject: Re: Excerpt from USRA Family Magazine: (Forgiveness) > From: ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) > Date: 29 Nov 90 17:58:28 GMT > > Hello Mark, > > I am an orthodox Christian who was once confused by Islam. Perhaps I can > answer some of your questions. > > First, in your posting, you quoted Jesus. Well, the Koran has different > stories of Jesus than the Bible does, and I have yet to find a single passage > in the Koran which says "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and > pray for them that despitefully use you." I have yet to even find a single > passage which resembles this. The only thing that comes close are passages > that deal with forgiving OTHER MOSLEMS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I asked Elizabeth to post my answer to her many days ago, but alas it hasn't come to pass. Here is a reconstruction of my answer: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goodness!!!!!!! Let me provide you a few references! 60:8 "As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably." 41:34 "But [since] good and evil cannot be equal, repel thou [evil] with something that is better - and lo! he between whom and thyself was enmity [may then become] as though he had [always] been close [unto thee], a true friend!" Here are further references: Apostacy - do not ask for speedy doom for apostates 46:35 - God alone will punish them 73:11, 74:11 - give charity even to the "erring ones" 24:22 Arguments/Attacks - respond in kind 8:58, 16:126 - being patient is far better 16:126 - respond with something better 41:34 Behavior - argue in a kindly manner with those given earlier revelation 16:125, 29:46 - be just in your opinions 6:152 - community should be moderate 2:143, 25:67 - conceit discouraged 4:36, 57:23 - don't chide those who seek your help 93:10 - don't consider yourself pure 53:32 - don't deride others 49:11, 104:1 - each group given a law and way of life 2:148, 5:48, 10:47, 10:74, 13:38 16:36, 16:63, 16:84 - forgive Jews who distort the Qur'an 5:13 - forgive non-believers 31:15, 45:14 - forgive readily 42:37 - peacemakers rewarded 42:40 - towards others 17:26-29, 17:35, 17:53, 60:8 - towards slaves 24:33 - do good unto 4:36 - share sustenance with 16:71 Business - be fair in dealings 6:152, 17:35 Disbelievers (see also Hypocrites) - bear their company in kindness 31:15 - bear what they say in patience 20:130, 50:39 - leave company of those in the act of mocking God's law 4:140, 6:68 - protect them if they ask you to 9:6 - speak kindly to them 17:53 Fighting - aggression - forbidden 2:190, 4:90, 60:8 - sin of 5:2 - foes cease, you must cease 2:193, 4:90, 8:37, 8:61 - killing only during hostilities in progress 2:191, 4:89, 4:91, 5:33, 8:39, 8:57, 9:5, 9:12 - not for material gain 4:94 Judgement - be just 5:8, 5:42 - don't let hate lead judgement astray 5:8 - use reason 6:151 - verify reports and rumors 49:6, 49:12 Killing 18:74, 18:80 - don't 6:151, 17:33, 25:68 - don't harm those offering peace 4:90 - only during hostilities in progress 2:191, 4:89, 4:91, 5:33, 8:39, 8:57, 9:5, 9:12 Native peoples - don't drive them out 2:84 - reject those who do 2:85 Religion - no coercion in matters of faith 2:256
ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) (01/19/91)
This morning I got a rather nasty letter from a s.r.i reader berating me for not responding to previous postings. I am presuming that he is talking about postings related to forgiveness. If there are other postings on other subjects, I have not seen them. News runs out very quickly from my sight, and there are many articles that I do not see. Here is my reply related to forgiveness. First, I would like to thank the people who have gone to the trouble to point out places in the Koran which related to fairness, forgiveness, etc. As I recall, the original discussion came from the question of ,"Why do Moslems not practice forgiveness in the same manner that Christians do?" Several people then wrote that Islam does practice forgiveness. Well, I know that Islam practices forgiveness to a degree, but it does not even come close to advocating the kind of forgiveness and love that Christianity does. While there are many Koranic passages relating to "just treatment" of others, not a single one of these passages tells people to love their enemies. I am basing this discussion on the passage in Matthew in which the Son of God says: "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them that despitefully use you. For the Father sends rain on the good and the bad, and His sun shines on both the good and the bad. Therefore, be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." And of course, there is the passage, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." This applies in any circumstances. And John 3:16 "For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in hiim should not perish, but have everlasting life." Note here that the passage says that God loves the entire world, not just a select few. God loves everyone, even the people that you may consider to be your utmost enemies. Therefore, God wants you to the love the people that he loves, and if you do not love everyone, including your enemies, you are committing sin. So, unless someone can come up with a passage from the Koran that clearly tells us to love everyone, including our enemies, then we will simply have to agree that the Bible teaches a higher forgiveness than does the Koran.
davidh%tektronix.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET (David L Hatcher) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan19.063507.29054@wpi.WPI.EDU> ta00est@unccvax.uncc.edu (elizabeth s tallant) writes: >So, unless someone can come up with a passage from the Koran that clearly >tells us to love everyone, including our enemies, then we will simply have >to agree that the Bible teaches a higher forgiveness than does the Koran. Personally, from what I have seen, the inner teachings of both the Koran and the Bible teach of an awareness of forgiveness for the enemy. But outwordly, the followers of BOTH spiritual traditions have a very hard time in bringing that ideal to fruitation. To be sure, some of the most hateful people whom I have come across are Christians. To make claims of superiority, and to actually manifest it are two completely different things. It's the fruits that I see that allows me to see my Beloved God working with in the soul of a person. Not claims of superior teachings. David Hatcher
yazdani@eng.umd.edu (Sayed M. Naved) (02/02/91)
I am posting this reply to an article on forgiveness, on behalf of a brother who doesn't have access to the net. All responses may be directed to me and it would be forwarded to him. In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Most Benificient Here are a few ayhahs (verses) or signs from Allah, who created me and you, to whom belongs all glory and praise, and who is free from what we ascribe to Him. Please, keep in mind that it is impossible to translate the Quran and convey the exact the message , here is translation from Abdullah Yusuf Ali's work. Surah: Jathiya (The Kneeling Down) Ayah: 14 "Tell those who believe to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for him to recompense (for good or ill) each people according to what they have earned." Surah: Shura (The Consultation) Ayah: 5 "The heavens are almost rent asunder from above them (By His Glory): and the angels celebrate the praises of their Lord, and pray for forgiveness for (all) beings on earth: Behold! Verily Allah is He, the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Surah: Zumar (Crowds) Ayah: 53 "....Despair not of the mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." I hope that these are the signs you were looking for. I would encourage you not to be arrogant and to re-evaluate your views. The conclusion that "Unless someone can come up with a passage from the Koran that clearly tells us to love everyone, including the our enemies, then we will simply have to agree that Bible teaches a higher forgiveness than does the Koran " is not valid for many reasons; one being that "Love" and "Forgiveness" are not synonomous. I believe that the references quoted above display that Quran enjoins the highest possible level of forgiveness. But with reference to Love the Quran speaks differently. All throughout the Quran there are references that Allah loves the righteous, the truthful, the patient, the believers and so on. Allah loves not the ones who cover truth with falsehood, the oppressor, the people given to wrong doing, the transgressors and so on. Referencing the Bible, we can display how the famous Christain OBSESSION with love and forgiveness is taken from the dogma, which has been forced on the Bible and not based upon it. Luke 12:49 "I have come to bring on the earth and how I wish it were already kindled." Luke 22:36 "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." John 18:10 "Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest servant, cutting off his right ear..." Matt 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Joshua 6:21 "They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys." Referencing the Quran Surah: Baqarah (Cow) Ayah: 191 "...... tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter.." Surah: Baqarah (Cow) Ayah: 193 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression , and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression." To conclude, in Islam we are encouraged by the Quran to be forgiving. But we are also to be Just; Oppression is not Just, and we have to fight it. Fighting was practised by the prophets in the Bible too. Peace be upon You. P.S. Please donot think of Islam as just another religion, it is the truth, and a mercy from the One God. It would be best for you to practice it - but at least do not insult it.
ta-dw30@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (David Worenklein) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb1.170609.6744@wpi.WPI.EDU> yazdani@eng.umd.edu (Sayed M. Naved) writes: >In the name of Allah, Most Merciful and Most Benificient > >Surah: Jathiya (The Kneeling Down) Ayah: 14 Question 1: Why are Surah's noted by their name? Is it acceptable to write, for instance, Surah 45, or is this a faux pas? >Referencing the Bible, we can display how the famous Christain OBSESSION Queestion 2: Coming from a traditional Jewish background, I was taught not to call the Christian testament "the Bible," meaning the book, which implies that it has more importance than other books. Does such a sentiment exist among traditional Muslims? Does the fact that Jesus was a Rasul make any difference? I do not mean to be insulting in my questions, please forgive me. I only wish to better understand the way The One God interacts with mankind, and the way mankind interacts with The One God. David Worenklein