ncp@math.ucla.edu (N. Christopher Phillips) (04/08/90)
I am interested in knowing roughly how many Moslems there are in the U.S.
and Canada, and something about their origins. For example, I can imagine the
following distinct groups:
(1) Recent immigrants from the Middle East and from other predominantly
Moslem countries.
(2) Students from predominantly Moslem countries who expect to return
home when their studies are completed.
(3) The Black Muslim movement.
(4) Descendents of non-recent immigrants from Moslem countries.
(5) Converts not connected with the Black Muslim movement.
I know that the first three are sizable groups, but I have no idea how large
they are, and I would like to know. I have never actually heard of anyone in
either of the last two groups, but surely they exist, and I would like to know
more.
A few other questions: Do these various groups of people have much
contact with each other? Have I overlooked any large groups of Moslems in
the U.S. or Canada? Are most of these people practising Moslems, or are there
a lot who are only nominally Moslems? (For comparison, there are many people
in the U.S. who are nominally Christians, but rarely or never go to church
and generally pay little or no attention to religion.)
Note: I realize that many Moslems consider such groups as Louis
Farrakhan's "Nation of Islam" (do I have the name right?) not to be true
Moslems. For the purposes of these questions, please don't exclude them
entirely. (For comparison, if I were asking about Christians instead, I would
want to know about the followers of Sun Myung Moon as well, although of
course they should be treated as a different category.)
Thanks.
N. Christopher Phillipsstx7175@uoft02.utoledo.edu (09/26/90)
Assalammu'alaikum,
First let me introduce myself. I'm a muslim from Malaysia and studying in
U.S. for more than 2 years.
I have two questions for all of the brothers.
First question:
I have found that there are some of the brothers eat meat from Kroger and
some groccery store. I told them that Kroger's meat is Haram. We cannot eat
any meat that is not slughter by Muslim.
But they said that Kroger is owned by Jewish so we can eat meat that've
been slaugther (may be) by Jewish since Jewish is Ahlil Kitab.
But from what I've learned, there are no more ahlil kitab in this age
because the Taurat and Injil are a corrupted text.
What more supprise me is that there were even an Imam in the Islamic
Center in my town, gives khuttbah. He said that since the price of slaugthered
meat is high, muslims can buy meat in Kroger or any grocery store????
I'm not an expert in Islam. I'm still learning everyday. Please someone
explain to me why are they buying an unslaugthered meat??
Second question:
I've seen some of the brothers wore shoes when they were praying and when
they were taking wudhuk.
From what I've learned, we must wear a clean cloth when we're praying.
Since shoes are dirty, we cannot wear it.
Please explain to me why they do this??
Please Post or Email me.
Thank you.
-Mohd Fadhil
mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross) (09/27/90)
I do not know a qualified person to pose this question to, so if you do, please let me know the answer. As I understand it, Moslems are permitted to use the services from two specialists of the Jewish faith--slaughterers and circumcisers. I remember this from having grown up in LA and seeing Moslems at our Kosher (analog of Hallal) butcher stores and hearing from our Mohels (circumcisers) that they sometimes got calls from Moslems. Kosher meat must be slaughtered by a trained person, with a knife tested for sharpness. The jugular vein (in the neck?) is severed and the animal is bled. The animal must have been in good health and is supposed to be in a room where it sees no blood, which might scare it. The meat must be sold soon after (I'm not sure what the requirement is). The sciatic nerve must be removed or, if not, then the tissue surrounding that nerve (ie filet mignon is out). The retailer (the butcher) or the purchaser must then salt the meat to further remove any blood in the tissues. For the meat to be considered "glatt," a mashgiach (inspecter) would check the lungs for lesions that could indicate sickness. Glatt meat costs more than regular kosher meat and is not required. Just because someone is Jewish does not mean that they sell kosher meat. Just because someone sells kosher meat does not mean that is actually is kosher. Just because someone says that Mashgiach X (Inspecter X) has super- vised the process, does not mean that the meat is kosher. What we look for is "reliable" seals of Heshgochah (marks from the Mashgiach). For instance, Hebrew National Hot Dogs may be made with beef and may say that they are kosher, but since no Heshgochah is on it, these are not considered reliablely kosher; Hebrew National Chicken has the Heshgochah (I believe) from the Union of Orthodox Rabbis, which indicates that inspections of the slaughter- house are done by an outside agency, so this is considered to be reliabley kosher. Now, you might understand why so many people find it easier just to become a vegetarian! --Michelle mgross@nosc.mil PS: I pay $1.79/pound for kosher chicken legs at the supermarket. I'm afraid to look at the prices for non-kosher meat as I suspect they're a lot less.
zama@midway.uchicago.edu (iftikhar uz zaman) (09/29/90)
Mohd. Fadhil writes: >First question: > I have found that there are some of the brothers eat meat from Kroger and >some groccery store. I told them that Kroger's meat is Haram. We cannot eat >any meat that is not slughter by Muslim. > But they said that Kroger is owned by Jewish so we can eat meat that've >been slaugther (may be) by Jewish since Jewish is Ahlil Kitab. > But from what I've learned, there are no more ahlil kitab in this age > because the Taurat and Injil are a corrupted text. If the Taurat and Injil are corrupted today, they were corrupted the day the ayat regarding "ahl al-kitab" were revealed--so nothing has changed in that respect. The issue of meat is not entirely straightforward. I understand that very traditional ulama like Shaikh Bin Baz of Saudia have given fatwa regarding the permissability of "grocery store" meat in America...(I am reporting this second hand, so I could be wrong). I KNOW that there is a difference of opinion between Hanafis and Shafi'is regarding the rules for meat slaughtered in various ways (e.g. slaughtered by Muslim who intentionally skips saying the name of Allah, by non-Muslim who does the same + some other situations). I really think this is an issue that one should take up with a mufti and not with fiqh hackers you find on the net (prime example: myself). One aya which is relevant, and which one does not hear very often in discussions of this issue is: la ta'kulu min ma lam yudhkar ism Allah `alayh ("don't eat that upon which the name of Allah has not been said..."). If there is a *general* allowance to eat things the "ahl al-kitab" eat, things that are specifically forbidden, surely, cannot be included in this permission (eg "ahl al-kitab" eat pork...). Like I said, however, I think you should continue this research with someone more qualified, like a mufti you trust... >Second question: > I've seen some of the brothers wore shoes when they were praying and when >they were taking wudhuk. > From what I've learned, we must wear a clean cloth when we're praying. >Since shoes are dirty, we cannot wear it. I wouldn't be too harsh on this one. There are hadiths regarding the permissibility of praying in one's shoes. "Dirty" is something fairly well defined when it comes to fiqh. How often do you get urine, blood, feces etc. on your shoes today? Also, again there is a difference of opinion between Shafi`i's and Hanafis regarding leather shoes that become dirty--do they simply become clean by their being rubbed through the dirt as you walk further in them, or do they need additional cleaning? If you really want to research this in detail, again, I would suggest asking a mufti regarding the variouos positions and the arguments for them. [OK so sue me: I don't believe a Bachelor's in Engineering and some reading in fiqh books is sufficient background for ijtihad...] Iftikhar. -- La yajrimannakum shan'anu qawmin `ala an-ta`dilu; i`dilu huwa aqrubu li al-taqwa... zama@ellis.uchicago.edu xpszama@uchimvs1.uchicago.edu
idx@cs.nott.ac.uk (Irena Damianou) (09/29/90)
In article <1990Sep26.064354.11098@nntp-server.caltech.edu> stx7175@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: > >Assalammu'alaikum, > > First let me introduce myself. I'm a muslim from Malaysia and studying in >U.S. for more than 2 years. > I have two questions for all of the brothers. > >First question: > I have found that there are some of the brothers eat meat from Kroger and >some groccery store. I told them that Kroger's meat is Haram. We cannot eat >any meat that is not slughter by Muslim. > But they said that Kroger is owned by Jewish so we can eat meat that've >been slaugther (may be) by Jewish since Jewish is Ahlil Kitab. > > But from what I've learned, there are no more ahlil kitab in this age > because the Taurat and Injil are a corrupted text. > > What more supprise me is that there were even an Imam in the Islamic >Center in my town, gives khuttbah. He said that since the price of slaugthered >meat is high, muslims can buy meat in Kroger or any grocery store???? > > I'm not an expert in Islam. I'm still learning everyday. Please someone >explain to me why are they buying an unslaugthered meat?? Jews of today are regarded as people of the book since their scriptures were corrupted before the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) came. At the prophet's (pbuh) time the companions asked, how can we marry (or eat meat slaughtered by) Christians? Are they not polytheists??? The prophet (pbuh) allowed them to marry (and eat meat slaugtered) by them even though they were not following the original teachings. >Second question: > I've seen some of the brothers wore shoes when they were praying and when >they were taking wudhuk. > From what I've learned, we must wear a clean cloth when we're praying. >Since shoes are dirty, we cannot wear it. > > Please explain to me why they do this?? > > Please Post or Email me. > Thank you. > >-Mohd Fadhil At the time of the prophet (pbuh), the people used to praywer with their shoes on at the mosques. So long as the shoes are clean, it is allowed to pray with thhem on. It is even allowed to wipe over them during wudu (instead of washing the feet)! However taking them off breaks the wudu!
jnawaz%skat.usc.edu@usc.edu (Jemshed Nawaz) (09/29/90)
In article <1990Sep26.064354.11098@nntp-server.caltech.edu> stx7175@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes: > >Assalammu'alaikum, Wa-alikum-Asalam, > > First let me introduce myself. I'm a muslim from Malaysia and studying in >U.S. for more than 2 years. > >Second question: > I've seen some of the brothers wore shoes when they were praying and when >they were taking wudhuk. > From what I've learned, we must wear a clean cloth when we're praying. >Since shoes are dirty, we cannot wear it. > I would like to share the following information with you: ON THE VALIDITY OF "MASSAH" How far Massah (passing wet hand) on socks meets the requirement of Salah (prayers)? Massah on socks is a sunnah of the Prophet(SAW). According to Hafiz Ibn Hijr (Fateh al-Bari), a group of 'muhadithin' vouch for Massah on the authority of an uninterrupted chain of narrators. Some 'muhadithin' have cited the number of such narrators as eighty, including the ten prominent companions about whom the Prophet(SAW) vouched that they were the dwellers of Paradise. One of the most authoritative hadith is the one narrated by Jarir(razi- Allah). After answering the call of nature (urination), he performed ablution and did Massah on his socks. Thereupon, people asked him, "You do this?" "Yes," he responded, "I have seen the Prophet(SAW) that after having urinated, he performed ablution and did Massah on his socks." Since Jarir embraced Islam after the revelation of Surah Al-Maidah (which carried the commandments for Wudhu), people accorded great weight to his narration. > Please explain to me why they do this?? > > Please Post or Email me. > Thank you. > >-Mohd Fadhil > > Jemshed Nawaz
mh52+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mohamed Adzlee Harun) (02/12/91)
1. Can an Islamic State invade a polytheistic state which refuses to accept Islam although, it is not hostile to the Islamic State? 2. Can an Islamic State kill and/or drive out polytheists living in the Islamic State, who refuse to accept Islam , although they are not hostile to Muslims? 3. Can terrorism ever be justified in Islam? -Peace, Mohamad, Shaheedah
paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (02/14/91)
Here are some listings of Qur'an verses that may address your questions. Actually reading the text will provide a richer understanding. >1. Can an Islamic State invade a polytheistic state which refuses to >accept Islam although, it is not hostile to the Islamic State? Fighting - aggression - forbidden 2:190, 4:90, 60:8 - sin of 5:2 >2. Can an Islamic State kill and/or drive out polytheists living in >the Islamic State, who refuse to accept Islam , although they are not >hostile to Muslims? - treat non-belligerent non-believers with equity 60:8 God - loves those who behave equitably 49:9 Killing - don't 6:151, 17:33, 25:68 - don't harm those offering peace 4:90 - oppression more awesome than 2:191, 2:217 - punishment for murder and spreading corruption on Earth 5:32 - retribution 2:178, 17:33 >3. Can terrorism ever be justified in Islam? Arguments/Attacks - respond in kind 8:58, 16:126 - being patient is far better 16:126 - respond with something better 41:34 - those slandered should provide charity for the "erring ones" 24:22 - killing only during hostilities in progress 2:191, 4:89, 4:91, 5:33, 8:39, 8:57, 9:5, 9:12
zix@cs.nott.ac.uk (Zafer Iqbal) (02/14/91)
In article <1991Feb12.061033.25437@nntp-server.caltech.edu> mh52+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mohamed Adzlee Harun) writes: >1. Can an Islamic State invade a polytheistic state which refuses to >accept Islam although, it is not hostile to the Islamic State? Before invasion, the Islamic state asks the second state to accept Islam and be part of the Islamic stae. If it refuses, then it is asked to live as dhimmis under the islamic state. IF it refuses this then the Islamic state can invade. >2. Can an Islamic State kill and/or drive out polytheists living in >the Islamic State, who refuse to accept Islam , although they are not >hostile to Muslims? No! >3. Can terrorism ever be justified in Islam? Depends wot you include/exclude in terrorism... :-) >-Peace, >Mohamad, Shaheedah Zafer
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi) (02/16/91)
SALAM ALEIKUM In article <1991Feb12.061033.25437@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, mh52+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mohamed Adzlee Harun) writes: |> 1. Can an Islamic State invade a polytheistic state which refuses to |> accept Islam although, it is not hostile to the Islamic State? |> No, Jihad (as a holy war)is only permitted in some occasions. The pen is always stonger than the sword, but when nobody is interested in what you are saying or writing then you have only the sword left. But the question is when can you say that you are fighting in a holy war? God explains it by saying: (5:75-76)" And why should ye not Fight in the Cause of Allah and of those, being weak, are illtreated (and oppressed)? Men women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Thee one who will protect; and raise for us one who will help!' Those who do believe Fight in the cause Allah, and those who reject Faith fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan." (22:39-41)"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight) because they are wronged;- And verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid; (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right, (For no cause) except that they say:'Our Lord is Allah'. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his(cause); for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might. (They are) those who, if we establish them in the land, establish Regular prayer and give Regular charity, enjoin the right and forbid wrong; Whith Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs." (2:190-193)" Fight in the Cause of Allah, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; For Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where ever they have turned you out; For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the Sacred Mosque (Mecka), unless they (first) fight you there: But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress Faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And Fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail Justice and Faith in Allah; But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression." |> 2. Can an Islamic State kill and/or drive out polytheists living in |> the Islamic State, who refuse to accept Islam , although they are not |> hostile to Muslims? No, not if they aren't a threat to the islamic state and its people.. (2:256)"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out Clear from Error: whoever Rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustwothy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (45:14)"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned." (50:39)" Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, ..." (28:56)" It is true thou wilt not be able to guide everyone whom thou lovest: but Allah guides those whom He will: and He knows best those who recieve guidance." |> |> 3. Can terrorism ever be justified in Islam? |> It depends on what you mean with terrorism. The Zionists even call the Intifada terrorism. |> -Peace, |> Mohamad, Shaheedah Peace. ********************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------------------------- (SAHIH MUSLIMIN- HADITH 79)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, and that is the least of faith." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- **********************************************************************
ABBASA%ul.ie@EVANS.UCAR.EDU (Asad Abbas, Dept ECE, Univ. Limerick, Ireland) (02/19/91)
In article <Mbggt=q00UhBI1D9oc@andrew.cmu.edu>, mh52+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mohamed Adzlee Harun) writes: > 1. Can an Islamic State invade a polytheistic state which refuses to > accept Islam although, it is not hostile to the Islamic State? There is no any thing like invasion in Islam. Islam is a relegion of peace and defence. That's why The Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)always tried to establish good ties with those tribes who were not hostile to Islamic state. > 2. Can an Islamic State kill and/or drive out polytheists living in > the Islamic State, who refuse to accept Islam , although they are not > hostile to Muslims? Islam fully ensures safety of life and materials of all non Muslims living in an Islamic state as long as they are peaceful and law abiding citizens.They are allowed to practice their relegion with full freedom. The Holy Koran gives full logic of every belief and invites every one to think upon.It never tries to force any thing.If any one does not accept then Koran says about him."For you your own way and for me my own way". > 3. Can terrorism ever be justified in Islam? Terrorism can never be justified in Islam.However,there are a lots of forms of jihad(holy war).It is responsibility of the biggest scholor of Islam to decide when and in what way to start jihad.Commen people are bound to obey him. > > -Peace, > Mohamad, Shaheedah Wassalam. Asad Abbas Naqvi.