2fntnougat@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Ian) (05/14/91)
Hello. I found the discussion on the use of "Allah" interesting, as Malaysia, a country with a Muslim government, but with only 55% of the population claiming to be Muslims, either wants to, or has, made it illegal for non-Muslims to use the word when referring to God, the One True Creator of the Universe. In particular, the Christians. This is compounded by the fact that in neighbouring Indonesia, which has a supposedly secular government, but *far* more people who claim to be Muslims (over 90%), both Muslims and Christians call God Allah when speaking in Bahasa Indonesia. (Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia are about as different as American and British English.) Anyway, I have a question: what are the criteria for a person to be a Muslim? That is, are there any specific beliefs, practices, etc. that makes one a Muslim? I ask this because I got into some discussions where someone told me that Saddam Hussein is not a true Muslim but just using Islam as a political lever. This phenomenon, of course, is evident in other religions, as well. For example, the leaders of the Crusades were not true Christians, but merely using it as a convenient political tool. So I would like to know what true Muslims use as criterea to determine if a person is a Muslim or not. (Ok, I understand that only Allah can see the true intention of a person. But if we know what the intention or real belief is, what are the beliefs and/or actions that make one a Muslim?) -- Ian Chai Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax I don't believe in flaming. If I appear to be flaming, either (a) it's an illusion due to the lack of nonverbal cues or (b) my sprinkler system has suffered a momentary glitch, so just ignore me until it's fixed.
soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled Soufi) (05/17/91)
As far as I know, the *minimal* property for someone to be muslim is the
following:
MUSLIM <==> believe that there is only ONE GOD and Muhammad is his
messenger
--khaled
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Khaled Soufi phone: (217)244-2274 |
| Department of Computer Science |
| University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign |2fntnougat@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Ian) (05/17/91)
In article <1991May16.170038.24414@wpi.WPI.EDU>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled Soufi) writes: > As far as I know, the *minimal* property for someone to be muslim is the > following: > > MUSLIM <==> believe that there is only ONE GOD and Muhammad is his > messenger > > --khaled Thanks, Khaled. Would other people on this section say that this is generally accepted by all Muslims, or is it just for Khaled's particular branch of Islam? On a related note, is it true that someone converts to Islam by declaring in front of two Muslim witnesses "There is One God Allah and Muhammad is his prophet"? -- Ian Chai Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax I don't believe in flaming. If I appear to be flaming, either (a) it's an illusion due to the lack of nonverbal cues or (b) my sprinkler system has suffered a momentary glitch, so just ignore me until it's fixed.
azran@elaine48.stanford.edu (Azran Osman Rani) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May17.135919.10966@wpi.WPI.EDU> 2fntnougat@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Ian) writes: > >In article <1991May16.170038.24414@wpi.WPI.EDU>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled Soufi) writes: >> As far as I know, the *minimal* property for someone to be muslim is the >> following: >> >> MUSLIM <==> believe that there is only ONE GOD and Muhammad is his >> messenger >> >> --khaled > >Thanks, Khaled. > >Would other people on this section say that this is generally accepted by all >Muslims, or is it just for Khaled's particular branch of Islam? > >On a related note, is it true that someone converts to Islam by declaring in >front of two Muslim witnesses "There is One God Allah and Muhammad is his >prophet"? >-- >Ian Chai Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax >I don't believe in flaming. If I appear to be flaming, either (a) it's an >illusion due to the lack of nonverbal cues or (b) my sprinkler system has >suffered a momentary glitch, so just ignore me until it's fixed. In my opinion, a Muslim is a person who upholds the principles of Iman and Islam, which are: Iman: 1) Belief in God 2) Belief in the Angels 3) Belief in the prophets 4) Belief in the Holy Books 5) Belief in the Judgement Day 6) Belief in Qad'q and Qad'r Islam: 1) declaring that there is no god but Allah and Muhamad is his messenger 2) praying 5 times daily 3) fasting in the month of Ramadhan 4) paying zakat and fitrah 5) performing the Haj (4) and (5) are only for people who have the financial means to do so. Azran Osman-Rani Stanford University azran@leland.stanford.edu
shamma@ccu.umanitoba.ca (05/21/91)
In article <1991May17.135919.10966@wpi.WPI.EDU> 2fntnougat@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Ian) writes: > >In article <1991May16.170038.24414@wpi.WPI.EDU>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled Soufi) writes: >> As far as I know, the *minimal* property for someone to be muslim is the >> following: >> >> MUSLIM <==> believe that there is only ONE GOD and Muhammad is his >> messenger >> >> --khaled > >Thanks, Khaled. > >Would other people on this section say that this is generally accepted by all >Muslims, or is it just for Khaled's particular branch of Islam? > >On a related note, is it true that someone converts to Islam by declaring in >front of two Muslim witnesses "There is One God Allah and Muhammad is his >prophet"? >-- >Ian Chai Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax That above statement that Kahled stated is enough for a person to be a Muslim. This statement includes the commitment of a person to base all his actions and beliefes in its context. The level of beleife afterwards will depend on how much the Muslim indvidual obediance towards Allah (God) as the only god. Walid ----- From daemon@ncar.UCAR.EDU Wed May 15 03:22:50 1991 Received: from ncar.ucar.edu by wpi.WPI.EDU (5.65/4.7) id AA11449; Wed, 15 May 91 03:22:47 EST Received: by ncar.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Central Post Office 04/10/90) id AA11240; Wed, 15 May 91 01:22:43 MDT Received: from uunet.UU.NET by ncar.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Central Post Office 04/10/90) id AA11226; Wed, 15 May 91 01:22:40 MDT Received: from relay1.UU.NET by uunet.uu.net with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-uucp-primary) id AA12680; Wed, 15 May 91 03:22:35 -0400 Received: from cs.utexas.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15164; Wed, 15 May 91 03:22:31 -0400 Received: by cs.utexas.edu (5.64/1.101) To: uunet!soc-religion-islam@uunet.UU.NET Path: cs.utexas.edu!helios!eemips!lateef From: lateef@eemips.tamu.edu (Afroz Lateef) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: Why Allah? (Why not). Message-Id: <16230@helios.TAMU.EDU> Date: 15 May 91 07:20:33 GMT References: <1991May9.114157.21740@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1991May10.134212.27802@wpi.WPI.EDU> Sender: usenet@TAMU.EDU Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station Lines: 57 Status: OR In article <1991May10.134212.27802@wpi.WPI.EDU> reddy@mips.com (T.S. Reddy) writes: > >In article <1991May9.114157.21740@wpi.WPI.EDU> lateef@eemips.tamu.edu (Afroz Lateef) writes: >> >>I come from India, and over there if one says God, then the question >> will be : which God. Hindus beleive in numerous Gods, god of fire, >>god of light, god of destruction, death, wind, rain etc. etc. >> > > As a Hindu, when somebody says God, I don't get that nitpicky :-). >If you say you believe in Allah or God, I would respect your belief and >not judge whether it is right or wrong. I would be happy that you have >found your path to God. Hence you are wrong in your statement about what >Hindus believe in. Very simply put, while Hindus worship God in different >manifestations, at the core of Hindu philosophy, there is belief in the >oneness of God. To make a blanket statement as you have is to display >ignorance about the subject. Of course, in Hinduism the beleif is in the uniqueness of GOD, who is the creator or pure energy. But don't hindus beleive that God created Brahma and Visnu and Shiva, and that these three are also considered Gods by Hindu beleivers? Isn't Brahma considered as God of creation, one who gives birth i.e one who creates humans and earth etc.(for 4 yugas and then goes to sleep?) Isn't Visnu considered to be God who protects/sustains? (that's the reason why he is considered to come on the earth in the form of Avtaars) Isn't Shiva considered the God of Destruction? Although there is uniqueness of God in Hindu beleives, but still within it isn't there beleives of the above 3 to be Gods? don't the people consider that to reach/realise God, these are the various paths. if u say that the three cited above are not considered to be Gods, and Hindus beleive only in the unique god, that is pure energy then I thiink u are right and I am wrong. > Just like many Muslims like to point out the mistakes that >non-Muslims make about Islam, I would like readers of this newsgroup >to be more careful when making statements like the one above. I appreciate ur concern, but I don't see any mistake in the statement made. >T.S.Reddy (e-mail: reddy@mips.com) Mohammed Afroz Lateef
mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mamdouh Maher) (05/22/91)
Ian writes: >Khaled Soufi writes: >> As far as I know, the *minimal* property for someone to be muslim is the >> following: >> >> MUSLIM <==> believe that there is only ONE GOD and Muhammad is his >> messenger > >Would other people on this section say that this is generally accepted by all >Muslims, or is it just for Khaled's particular branch of Islam? > >On a related note, is it true that someone converts to Islam by declaring in >front of two Muslim witnesses "There is One God Allah and Muhammad is his >prophet"? To be precise, you become Muslim as Khaled described. You are considered Muslim, (and hence other Muslims owe you to consider you and treat you as a Muslim) by _CLAIMING_ to bear witness that there is no deity but Allah (God) and that Muhammad is His messenger, while not contradicting your claim with an act or speech such as by praying to other than Allah. The witnesses are not necessary to become a Muslim, but an acceptance of Islam is preferably done in public. The declaration of the acceptance has to be done in public by definition. Mamdouh Maher