gristle@ucscb.ucsc.edu (66016000) (06/26/91)
I have currently been reading raging flames written by "white power" type people attacking Jews and eventually attacking Islam. They seem to be against all "dirty people." It sickens me to see continuing violence between people who are all of the same stock. Regardless of religious beliefs, all middle-easterners are from the same family and this infighting is pointless. The "white power" nazi types love to see us fighting, they sell weapons to both sides profiting off sales and our deaths. Recently, they have been posting extreme amounts of material to talk.politics. mideast. They have found old anti-semtic doctrine that says that Hebrew uses "secret codes" that describe "blood drinking" and killing of al non-Jews. This stuff is pure lies and rubbish and has been refuted time and time again but I think now more than ever Jewish and Islamic people must join together and start showing these idiots that their attempts at keeping us fighting must come to an end. Although I am Jewish, my best friends since childhood have been mixed Iranian and Jewish, and I can't see why anyone else need have so much trouble.... I keep hearing reports of links between CIA people and Nazi war criminals, and I am inclined to believe that these may be true, and that the constant instigations that people have to attack Israel may be planted by foreigners. I have never heard opinions of any Middle-Eastern usenet users: how do you feel about these issues? Is it possible to reach peace between Jews, Moslems, and everyone else? Can we defeat these hate groups?
tr@samadams.Princeton.EDU (Tom Reingold) (06/26/91)
My (very small) understanding of this is that the Arab/Jew disputes are
politcally based and not based on ideologies of religions. And the
disputes are between ethnic groups, not religions. The word Jew here
refers to an ethnic group, even though it can, at other times, refer to
the religion which is practiced by the set of people that Middle
Eastern Jews belong to.
--
Tom Reingold
tr@samadams.princeton.edu OR ...!princeton!samadams!tr
"Warning: Do not drive with Auto-Shade in place. Remove
from windshield before starting ignition."ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) (06/27/91)
>In article <1991Jun26.133014.29749@wpi.WPI.EDU> gristle@ucscb.ucsc.edu (66016000) writes: > I have currently been reading raging flames written by "white power" type > people attacking Jews and eventually attacking Islam. They seem to be > against all "dirty people." It sickens me to see continuing violence [...] > Although I am Jewish, my best friends since childhood have been mixed > Iranian and Jewish, and I can't see why anyone else need have so much > trouble.... > I keep hearing reports of links between CIA people and Nazi war criminals, > and I am inclined to believe that these may be true, and that the > constant instigations that people have to attack Israel may be planted > by foreigners. > I have never heard opinions of any Middle-Eastern usenet users: how > do you feel about these issues? Is it possible to reach peace between > Jews, Moslems, and everyone else? Can we defeat these hate groups? Hopefully yes. As a believing Muslim, I am sure that it is possible to live peacefully together. But I'm afraid politicians in the middle east are not so interested. James Baker is trying to find a solution, but he is obviously powerless or weak against the unwilling government of Israel. They seem not to want to co-exist with Muslims, and that kind of behaviour is partly the source of mistrust. For example, on the entrance of the Knesset, it is said, is written "from the Nile to Tigris" which many Muslims see as a manifestation of zionism. It is be true that all this lands were promised to the Jews thousands of years ago, but we believe also that they were offending Moses and not believed in Jesus and that they have lost the right to get these lands. You will hardly get some consens on such points of belief. But it must be possible to accept each other and live together peacefully. Like perhaps in times of Sulaiman the magnificient who invited the jews to Istanbul who were dismissed from there. This time, the roles have changed, and it is up to the Israelite government to be the magnificiant...
blais@emx.utexas.edu (Donald Blais) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun27.132801.15207@wpi.WPI.EDU> ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes: >Hopefully yes. As a believing Muslim, I am sure that it is possible to >live peacefully together. But I'm afraid politicians in the middle >east are not so interested. James Baker is trying to find a solution, >but he is obviously powerless or weak against the unwilling government >of Israel. They seem not to want to co-exist with Muslims, and that >kind of behaviour is partly the source of mistrust. > >For example, on the entrance of the Knesset, it is said, is written >"from the Nile to Tigris" which many Muslims see as a manifestation of >zionism. In the 10th century BC the empire of David and Solomon extended south to the edge of the Sinai desert and north to the edge of the Euphrates river not far from Damascus. The kingdoms of Israel and Judah and the capital city of Jerusalem were at the heart of the empire. A verse in the Bible uses these "ideal" empire borders in describing the land of the children of Abram. bayyom hahu' karat YHWH at-avram brit le'mor lzar`aka natati et-ha'aretz hazot minhar mitzrayim `ad-hanahar hagadol nhar-prat The Nile river is not mentioned. The river of Egypt (nhar mitzrayim) is considered by scholars to be a wadi that divided the Negev desert of Judah from the Sinai desert of Egypt. -- Donald E. Blais Internet: blais@emx.utexas.edu Computation Center Bitnet: blais@utxvms University of Texas Uucp: uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!blais Austin, TX 78712 Phone: +1 512-471-8530 +1 512-471-3241
raza@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk (Z. Raza Hussain) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun26.133014.29749@wpi.WPI.EDU> gristle@ucscb.ucsc.edu (66016000) writes: > >I have never heard opinions of any Middle-Eastern usenet users: how >do you feel about these issues? Is it possible to reach peace between >Jews, Moslems, and everyone else? Can we defeat these hate groups? i hope i can get my point across with a little story... recently, i was doing my revision (for final exams) in a reference library. this library required users of the library to ask staff at a counter to order books for reading. within 15 or 20 minutes you could come back and collect the books ordered previously. usually the staff were quite polite, helpfull and offered this service in a relaxed manner. there was however this one woman at the counter that i seemed to have a slight problem with. she did not at all like conversing with me and in a way shunned me every time i encountered her at the desk. she never smiled or looked me in the eye even though many times i attempted to be friendly and act in as polite a manner as possible. talking to her seemed to make her annoyed and perhaps a little bit angry. there was one incident which due to either carelessness or complacency she ordered the wrong book even though i stressed this book was very important and i urgently needed it (it would be the last opportunity to browse through it before the exam). i began wondering why this was happening, but didn't consider it a problem - in this big world you're going to meet many types of people with many different backgrounds, habits, cultures, attitudes. i thought possible this woman had some personal problems or just had some sort of irrevocable personality, but anyway, as i said, i didn't give it much attention. later on, after the exams had finished (yipee!) i had of course finished going to this library. but i did see this woman again. i was passing by in a car when i saw her walking with a man with a long beard, wearing a hat and dressed in traditional Jewish clothes. it was then i realised why she had a grudge against me (it should be noted that my name is Hussain, which was on the application form for the library books, so she had obviously derived an impression or opinion about me). the point i'm trying to make is that it's probably okay to get along fine with people who you know personally, but there's this in built hatred which has stemmed from very early on in history which makes people on the opposite side traditionally hate each other. there have been many religious battles between the Jews, Moslems and Christians and are remembered bitterly to this day. even today, with the brutal harsh treatment of the Muslim Palestinians by the Jewish Israelis (who are considered unjust occupiers of the land only by the will of the powerfull West). there is general untrust between the groups of people which is too difficult to resolve. to ask to become friends and conspire to cooperate and happily mix in with each other is desired but idealistic. there's nothing better than peace, and i agree that other factions of society are forming against the minorities in the West, but i think there's nothing we can do against them. i don't think we can change the world and hope that the more repulsive groups of people who live on this hatred can be transformed - these types of people will always exist.