msa@zeus.unomaha.edu (MSA of Nebraska U. @Omaha &Omaha Islamic Center) (06/17/91)
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH
THE MERCIFUL THE COMPASSIONATE
Assalamu alaikum:
( this was posted in soc.culture.arabic)
In article <11948@hub.ucsb.edu>, 6600powr@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Zelig) writes:
> Hi. A question asked not out of mockery, but out of
> honest and respectful curiosity. Why is the stereo-
> type of Arabic society so mysogynistic? Are things
> really as bad for women as they are reputed to be?
> Is there any serious movement or desire for change?
>
> The only knowledge I have of this issue,
> unfortunately, is that which fits the stereotype.
> I am anxious to fill the gap in my knowledge in
> order to arrive closer to the truth, and that is why
> I am asking.
--
Throughout history, women in the west and all over the world was first looked
upon as mere nonentity and later with the start of industrial revolution the
whole social scene underwent a radical change and women suffered their worst
possible suffering yet in history, were she was over worked like men in
addition to her responsibilities as a homemaker. Family life was ruined ever
since. Years passed and women in the west and all over the world is still
straggling for basic rights that by law were never given to them. Americans
till recently in their history gave women the right to vote. Women still tof
date don't get paid or be treated the same as men.
Needless to say, women in the west and including the US, are finding that their
newly won rights are not the answer for their quest of good life and equal
living and opportunity. The rights that men gave women came with other problems
and concerns when women found themselves again trying to balance work, family,
and other life matters. They are becoming to realize that earned/given rights
are not enough if they are not accompanied with real and genuine will from the
rest of the society. Men in the west have no motive to ensure and help freeing
women.
The previous lines only meant to represent the struggle of the western women
for rights and life that Islam gave right away to Moslem women accompanied with
the teachings that ensure the male respect for their rights and life and making
that as a part of being a Moslem.
There is no time now to go into /Women in Islam/ there are books and books
regarding that subject in Islam. Or you could read the Holy Qur'an and The
Prophet's (may peace be upon Him) sayings. However, what about the Arab women?
Arab women, and they are mostly Moslem, were for many years subject to a
propaganda by the west and by the dictators ruling the Arabic/Moslem countries.
Their motives were and still are, to destroy the Arab family structure by
subjecting the society to a brainwashing campaigns and to economic pressures
to force the Arab women to go through what women went through in the west.
One of the obvious plans to destroy families through exploiting women were, in
most Muslim countries, forcing them to travel and relocate -most cases alone-
in order for them to start a job to earn a living and support herself and
family or just to continue her quest for higher education.
Arab/Moslem women are still subjected to the western propaganda showing them
as women of the thousand-nights tales and notably women in the west are
currently actually living these same tales in real life with the influence of
ungodly power, drugs and alcohol addictions.
So, to sum up, finally huh? :) , whatever the west is claiming and planning for
the Arab/Moslem women is being supported be the local dictators working for the
same goals. Islam puts women on the same level as men both are subject to the
same rules and orders, and Islam even puts motherhood on higher grounds.
Wasalamu Alaikum.
==============================================================================
MSA of the University of Nebraska, Omaha.
_ | | | | _ _______ _ | | | | | | _ | | | |
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|_|_| | |__| _/ _/ ___|__|_| |_|_| | |_| | |_| | |_|hanan@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (Hanan Lutfiyya) (06/20/91)
In Message-ID: <1991Jun17.133302.1993@wpi.WPI.EDU> someone from the
MSA of the University of Nebraska, Omaha writes
>Throughout history, women in the west and all over the world was first looked
>upon as mere nonentity and later with the start of industrial revolution the
>whole social scene underwent a radical change and women suffered their worst
>possible suffering yet in history, were she was over worked like men in
>addition to her responsibilities as a homemaker. Family life was ruined ever
>since. Years passed and women in the west and all over the world is still
>straggling for basic rights that by law were never given to them. Americans
>till recently in their history gave women the right to vote. Women still tof
>date don't get paid or be treated the same as men.
>Needless to say, women in the west and including the US, are finding that their
>newly won rights are not the answer for their quest of good life and equal
>living and opportunity. The rights that men gave women came with other problems
>and concerns when women found themselves again trying to balance work, family,
>and other life matters. They are becoming to realize that earned/given rights
>are not enough if they are not accompanied with real and genuine will from the
>rest of the society. Men in the west have no motive to ensure and help freeing
>women.
So far fairly accurate. But, I think one reason for these problems
is that the feminist movement concentrated on the woman. The feminist
movement underestimated the adjustment that has to be made.
>The previous lines only meant to represent the struggle of the western women
>for rights and life that Islam gave right away to Moslem women accompanied with
>the teachings that ensure the male respect for their rights and life and making
>that as a part of being a Moslem.
....
>Arab women, and they are mostly Moslem, were for many years subject to a
>propaganda by the west and by the dictators ruling the Arabic/Moslem countries.
>Their motives were and still are, to destroy the Arab family structure by
>subjecting the society to a brainwashing campaigns and to economic pressures
>to force the Arab women to go through what women went through in the west.
>One of the obvious plans to destroy families through exploiting women were, in
>most Muslim countries, forcing them to travel and relocate -most cases alone-
>in order for them to start a job to earn a living and support herself and
>family or just to continue her quest for higher education.
Women are working more. The reason is the economical development
that is starting to take place in many Arab countries. In any
society, not just Arab/Muslim societies, economical development
usually warrents a larger work force. This is because an
economically well-developed society has many more jobs that
are more specialized. The best way to increase the work
force is by using women. This has happened in the West and
is just starting to happen in the Arab world. Some may
ask about countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, where the
percentage of women in the labor force is still small(although,
there has been great improvement in the last few years). These
countries are not good examples, because they have the money
to increase their labor forces through importing workers. On
the otherhand, take Iraq. Iraq does import workers. But, they
prefered to encourage women to enter the workforce, esp.
for managerial and skilled work, instead of importing foreign labor.
BTW, you saw this to a lesser extent in Jordan(probably because
Jordan's pace of economical development is slower). It interesting
to note that Iraq has a pretty good record on womens rights. Ok,
now my point:
I ask you this: Is it really bad to have women working? In order for a
society to develop, it must use all members of it in the best
possible way, including its women. Yes, there is
certainly exploitation. But, laws(no matter how slowly) can
be passed to prevent exploitation. We are starting to
see this in the West. There are many problems. But, I think
this is because the West has not adjusted itself to the
working woman. The answer is not to go back to the way it
was, but rather to work towards a "new order"(yuck, I sound
like Bush, but I couldn't think of a better combination of
words).
>Arab/Moslem women are still subjected to the western propaganda showing them
>as women of the thousand-nights tales and notably women in the west are
>currently actually living these same tales in real life with the influence of
>ungodly power, drugs and alcohol addictions.
I would agree that Western propaganda is not very accurate in its
protrayl of Arab/Muslim women. It is inaccurate or misleading.
In the above you seem to believe that Western women are
influenced by drugs and alchohol addictions(ungodly power? I'm not
sure what you mean by this). Sure, *some* are. As are *some* men.
I'm not sure I see your point. You make it sound that *all*
women are influenced by drugs and alcohol. This sterotype is inaccurate.
I'm sure that you see women where you are working/going to school. Do they all
looked "stoned"? Somehow, I doubt it.
BTW, I am an Arab/Muslim woman. I don't feel the need for drugs
or alcohol. I have found working and school to be both satisfying and
enjoyable. As important as motherhood is, I don't think that my
role in society should be limited to just motherhood. Society loses.
>So, to sum up, finally huh? :) , whatever the west is claiming and planning for
>the Arab/Moslem women is being supported be the local dictators working for the
>same goals. Islam puts women on the same level as men both are subject to the
>same rules and orders, and Islam even puts motherhood on higher grounds.
I doubt the West has anything planned for the Arab/Muslim woman.
At least not what you have said. Why? Because in the long run
society benefits from working women.
Hanan Lutfiyya
University of Missouri-Rollarached@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) (06/26/91)
On the subject of women and working, many muslims have different points of view depending on their origins. To the best of my knowledge (and I don't claim to be the most knowlegeable) there is nothing in Islam preventing a woman form going to work as long as she abides by the rules of conduct set for a woman in society (this is the same for a man, he has to abide by the rules) set by Allah in the Quran and through his Messenger Muhammad Peace be Upon him. On the other hand Islam places importance to the role of a woman as a mother first and as a wife second. If we look at the mother of small children, what is better for her to go to work and leave her children to be raised up by another woman or to stay with them and ensure that they are raised in the best way ? (I think we all agree on the answer). Now for the society what is better ? to have women working to help that society develop more fast while leaving the future generation to be lost or to grow a little bit slower while ensuring the safety of the future generation ? (I think we all will agree here also). Still the above is an opinion and may be wrong but the most important thing to consider is the general picture and not go blindly behind full equality between men and women. Also in Islam the man is supposed to care for the family by working and bringing money, the woman should be freed from that burden (sp ?) to care for raising up her children. That does not mean that the man won't have anything to do with their children neither that the woman will sit down and see her husband not able to do his job and not help. But it is important here to note that Islam gave the right for the woman to keep her earnings (work or other) to herself and she is not obliged to share in the expenses of the house, also she is free to do whatever she wants with her money (unlike the husband). The picture is like this, a woman should have her home (raising up the children and ensuring a peaceful and ordered house for the husband) as her first priority. The husband should have as first priority to work for supporting the family. The relationship between both should be that of love and partenership (sp ?) if the man sees his wife bored after her children are in school and do not need her that much, he shouldn't stand between her and working (I do not think that according to Islam he could but again I may be wrong), also he should be ready to help when her work is overwhelming. The same goes for the woman. rached -- "I bear witness that there is only one god, and that Muhammad is his messenger"
mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mamdouh Maher) (06/27/91)
Assalamu `alaykum, In article <1991Jun20.152742.19343@wpi.WPI.EDU> hanan@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (Hanan Lutfiyya) writes: > Women are working more. The reason is the economical development >that is starting to take place in many Arab countries.[...] Good point. Of course, Islam never prohibited women from working. The concern is, what is it that women in the homes did that can no longer be done when they work? If the woman is single or has no children, the trade off is small. >Some may >ask about countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, where the >percentage of women in the labor force is still small(although, >there has been great improvement in the last few years). These >countries are not good examples, because they have the money >to increase their labor forces through importing workers. Again, I agree. > On the otherhand, take Iraq. Iraq does import workers. But, they >prefered to encourage women to enter the workforce, esp. >for managerial and skilled work, instead of importing foreign labor. >BTW, you saw this to a lesser extent in Jordan(probably because >Jordan's pace of economical development is slower). It interesting >to note that Iraq has a pretty good record on womens rights. Women are an important resource of society. Jordan, Iraq and other Muslim countries chose the better alternative in this case. Importing workers creates an imbalance that is clearly seen in Gulf countries. Ok, now my point: > I ask you this: Is it really bad to have women working? In order for a >society to develop, it must use all members of it in the best >possible way, including its women. Yes, there is >certainly exploitation. But, laws(no matter how slowly) can >be passed to prevent exploitation. We are starting to >see this in the West. There are many problems. But, I think >this is because the West has not adjusted itself to the >working woman. The answer is not to go back to the way it >was, but rather to work towards a "new order"(yuck, I sound >like Bush, but I couldn't think of a better combination of >words). I think it is good, not bad to have women working. I do not think that the West has started to pass laws to prevent exploitation of women yet, I think they are still at the "patch this problem and make a lot of publicity about the patch" stage. A woman is often expected by society to juggle the home and the office, even when she is not expected to do so by her family. You said: "In order for a society to develop, it must use all members of it in the best possible way, including women". I believe that this statement carries more meaning than meets the eye. It is clearly in society's favour to bring up the best future generation that it can. On this point, the West fails and the Muslims fail as well. The West fails because it all but neglects the young. They are left to external influences which are often destructive. The Muslims fail because, although they give the young a great deal of attention, they frequently fail to give them the right resources to develop. It is my opinion that Islam should be an integral part of the upbringing of every person. Islam in all its strength, not just one face of it. The young should enjoy the power of the Islam that compels them to learn and apply what they have learnt in every constructive way and in no other way. They should enjoy the greatness of the Islam that makes their ethics a model to all humanity. They should enjoy the beauty of the Islam that balances work and worship, making each a form of the other. The family can give that. The mother can give that. Daycare cannot. >[...] > As important as motherhood is, I don't think that my >role in society should be limited to just motherhood. Society loses. I agree. If you can give your children their full right to a strong Islamic upbringing and still work, then by all means. You would not be the first woman to be able to perform such a great task. My only concern is parents who compromise the future of their children for material wealth. > I doubt the West has anything planned for the Arab/Muslim woman. >At least not what you have said. Why? Because in the long run >society benefits from working women. _Some_ people in the West hope to shake Islam by alienating Muslim women. I know that for fact. So far they failed except with some Muslim women in the West itself. The best defence is to eliminate myths about Islam by showing its truth. Islam is just, it can only be fought with distortion. Assalamu `alaykum, Mamdouh Maher
hanan@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (Hanan Lutfiyya) (06/28/91)
In Message-ID: <1991Jun27.134043.19412@wpi.WPI.EDU> (Mamdouh Maher) writes >Assalamu `alaykum, > >In article <1991Jun20.152742.19343@wpi.WPI.EDU> hanan@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (Hanan Lutfiyya) writes: >> >> Women are working more. The reason is the economical development >>that is starting to take place in many Arab countries.[...] > Good point. Of course, Islam never prohibited women from working. The concern >is, what is it that women in the homes did that can no longer be done when they >work? If the woman is single or has no children, the trade off is small. I agree that Islam has never prohibited women from working. I think the problem is not Islam, but traditions. This is not a problem unique to the Arab/Muslim world. They are still coping with it in the US. ..... > Ok, now my point: >> I ask you this: Is it really bad to have women working? In order for a >>society to develop, it must use all members of it in the best >>possible way, including its women. Yes, there is >>certainly exploitation. But, laws(no matter how slowly) can >>be passed to prevent exploitation. We are starting to >>see this in the West. There are many problems. But, I think >>this is because the West has not adjusted itself to the >>working woman. The answer is not to go back to the way it >>was, but rather to work towards a "new order"(yuck, I sound >>like Bush, but I couldn't think of a better combination of >>words). > I think it is good, not bad to have women working. I do not think that >the West has started to pass laws to prevent exploitation of women yet, I >think they are still at the "patch this problem and make a lot of publicity >about the patch" stage. A woman is often expected by society to juggle the >home and the office, even when she is not expected to do so by her family. > Agreed. But, I think prefer 'patch" to nothing. At least they are talking about it. There are some pretty good ideas. Maternity leaves(without getting fired), paternity leaves, job sharing, etc; I think we will see improvement, because companies will find it to their advantage. Why? Because companies will find themselves in need of highly skilled workers that can not be satisfied by using only men. Next step? More women. Highly skilled workers are not easily replacable. Therefore, you will find many companies embracing some of the above ideas. That and pressure on the government will probably lead to laws that will make it easier. I don't think this will be immediate, but I would like to think there will be trend towards this. > You said: "In order for a society to develop, it must use all members >of it in the best possible way, including women". I believe that this statement >carries more meaning than meets the eye. It is clearly in society's favour >to bring up the best future generation that it can. On this point, the West >fails and the Muslims fail as well. The West fails because it all but neglects >the young. They are left to external influences which are often destructive. >The Muslims fail because, although they give the young a great deal of >attention, they frequently fail to give them the right resources to develop. Ok, I think I agree with this. > It is my opinion that Islam should be an integral part of the upbringing of >every person. Islam in all its strength, not just one face of it. The young >should enjoy the power of the Islam that compels them to learn and apply >what they have learnt in every constructive way and in no other way. They >should enjoy the greatness of the Islam that makes their ethics a model to >all humanity. They should enjoy the beauty of the Islam that balances work >and worship, making each a form of the other. > The family can give that. The mother can give that. Daycare cannot. I think daycare is necessary, although I would like to have the choice of daycare that best conforms to my "way of thinking". I would like to see more daycare centers at the place of work. >>[...] >> As important as motherhood is, I don't think that my >>role in society should be limited to just motherhood. Society loses. > I agree. If you can give your children their full right to a strong Islamic >upbringing and still work, then by all means. You would not be the first >woman to be able to perform such a great task. My only concern is parents >who compromise the future of their children for material wealth. Precisely. But, the key point is it should be up to the woman on how she is going to do this juggling act. Let's not place contraints in such a way to conform to a particular perception. I will agree that this is one very delicate balancing act, and I hope ,as I think any person, does that I make the best of it. Hanan Lutfiyya University of Missouri-Rolla