SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) (03/11/91)
Reply-to: Dave.Appel@p30.f30.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Appel) Fido-To: nick di giovanni In a message to All <07 Mar 91 13:05> Nick Di Giovanni wrote: ND> We arrived in DeLand the day after and they told us it was a 160-way ND> and this guy was the only one out. He hit Sally Weiner (sp?) and I ND> talked to her about her sore shoulder. Scotty Carbone chased the guy ND> to about 700-feet and almost got him. That sounds like something Scotty would do. Scotty dumped at around 1,000 feet a couple times at a local DZ before the owners threatened to ground him. Humming it to save someone is a noble thing to do, but there comes a point where bravery crosses the line and becomes stupidity. I don't know if I have the skills to chase an unconscious jumper, but I don't think I'd go below 1,500 if I did. --- XRS! 4.00 --- eecp 1.45 LM2 * Origin: The Drop Zone, Dave Appel, 1:231/250.3 (Quick 1:231/30.30) -- SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13 (ehsnet.fidonet.org)
msb@hosmsb.ATT.COM (Mike Balenger) (03/14/91)
>>>>> On 10 Mar 91 20:02:07 GMT, SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) said:
SKYDIVE> Reply-to: Dave.Appel@p30.f30.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Appel)
SKYDIVE> Fido-To: nick di giovanni
SKYDIVE> In a message to All <07 Mar 91 13:05> Nick Di Giovanni wrote:
ND> We arrived in DeLand the day after and they told us it was a
ND> 160-way and this guy was the only one out. He hit Sally Weiner
ND> (sp?) and I talked to her about her sore shoulder. Scotty Carbone
ND> chased the guy to about 700-feet and almost got him.
SKYDIVE> That sounds like something Scotty would do.
Yeah, but in his defense, I have seen him *PAY* for extra jumpers to
assist him with safety concerns in a jump from a caraboo. He paid $15
X 3 (or 4), and ended up jumping a 3000. He was going throught the
"bomb bay door" between the pilots, and needed help to make sure that
he didn't hit anything or have anything hit him. A photographer went
out the back door in synchrony to photograph the dive. Pretty neat
stunt, but also a pretty expensive way to get a dive from 3 grand.
It's tought to say what *YOU* would do in the situation until *YOU*
are actually there, so please refrain from judging other's motives or
capabilities. You may have tried, and bounced with the guy. You may
have tried, and gotten ground rush at 2 grand. You may have saved
him, but still bounced. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be so quick to condemn a guy who *SURVIVED* an attempt to save
the life of one who *DIED*.
This is real life, not a mini-series.
--
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<cute quote> Michael S. Balenger (908) 949-8789
<cute disclaimer> AT&T Bell Labs
M_Balenger@att.com Room 1L-405 FAX: (908) 949-7512
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att!hos1cad!msb Holmdel, NJ 07733-1988ccjoan@aggie.ucdavis.edu (Joan Gargano) (03/15/91)
In article <1991Mar13.212936.17812@cbnewsh.att.com> msb@hos1cad.ATT.COM (Mike Balenger) writes: > >SKYDIVE> That sounds like something Scotty would do. > >Don't be so quick to condemn a guy who *SURVIVED* an attempt to save >the life of one who *DIED*. In general, I get irritated with people who pull low on a regular basis and I've been scared and irritated by Scotty Carbone more than once. But he does have a lot of experience with low altitude openings and knows his abilities and limitations in that situation better than most. I can support his low opening trying to save the unconscious jumper because of the severity of the situation, his experience at low altitudes and above average abilities to handle that situation. It is similar to the mountain climber on a rescue team that puts him/herself in a potentially dangerous situation to rescue someone. All of the factors involved, scenario, skill of the rescuer, equipment, etc. make it an acceptable risk in that one instance. This was probably true in this case as well. Joan Gargano
SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) (03/16/91)
Reply-to: Dave.Appel@p30.f30.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Appel)
Fido-To: mike balenger
In a message to Skydive <14 Mar 91 11:35> uiucuxc!hosmsb.att.com!ms wrote:
ui> SKYDIVE> That sounds like something Scotty would do.
ui> It's tought to say what *YOU* would do in the situation until *YOU*
ui> are actually there, so please refrain from judging other's motives or
ui> capabilities. You may have tried, and bounced with the guy. You may
ui> have tried, and gotten ground rush at 2 grand. You may have saved
ui> him, but still bounced. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!!
ui> Don't be so quick to condemn a guy who *SURVIVED* an attempt to save
ui> the life of one who *DIED*.
<sigh> I didn't mean to condemn Scotty for trying to save a life.
In response to Nick DiGiovanni's message, I wrote:
============ start of what I originally said =================
"That sounds like something Scotty would do. Scotty dumped at
around 1,000 feet a couple times at a local DZ before the
owners threatened to ground him. Humming it to save someone is
a noble thing to do, but there comes a point where bravery
crosses the line and becomes stupidity.
I don't know if I have the skills to chase an unconscious
jumper, but I don't think I'd go below 1,500 if I did.
================= end of what I originally said ===========
Note that I gave PRAISE, albeit qualified, to Scotty, saying
it was a "noble thing to do". I didn't condemn him. I don't know
where the point that "bravery becomes stupidity" is, I just said
that there is one. Everyone has their own individual limits.
If Scotty thinks that regularly dumping at 1,000 is ok for
him, then he probably thinks 700 is ok for an emergency to
save someone's life. Scotty pulls low a lot, that's common
knowledge. I don't believe that's ok for me, and I certainly
wouldn't recommend pulling that low to others, even to save
a life. That's my belief.
This is an open forum, and we're just expressing our
beliefs/opinions/stories on skydiving. Anyway, please don't
think I was condemning Scotty for trying to save a life.
However, did he go "too low" in trying to save the guy?
Well, that's the opinion part. I'm saying I wouldn't go that
low. Personally, I wouldn't hum it to 700 feet to save my own
mother. 1,200 feet maybe.
Note that I myself said "I don't know if I have the skills
to chase an unconscious jumper." I didn't say that I could have
saved him, or would have saved him. I didn't say that I would
even try or not.
ui> This is real life, not a mini-series.
Yup. Everytime I read and sign a waiver I'm reminded.
Thanks for returning my phone call.
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--
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13 (ehsnet.fidonet.org)SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG (SKYDIVE) (03/17/91)
Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer) Fido-To: uiucuxc!hosmsb.att.com!msb U> SKYDIVE> That sounds like something Scotty would do. [lots of stuff defending Scotty and ragging on the guy who said this deleted] Hey man! Chill out! I think you might have misinterpreted this statement. It could also be high praise. Personally, I would feel honored if someone said this of me. And besides, it does in fact sound like something Scotty would do. So what's wrong with pointing this out? [soapbox off] It's late. I guess your message hit me wrong. --- msged 2.07 --- eecp 1.45 LM2 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd. (1:102/853) -- SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13 (ehsnet.fidonet.org)
toad@athena.mit.edu (John P. Jackson) (03/19/91)
>SKYDIVE> That sounds like something Scotty would do. >Yeah, but in his defense, I have seen him *PAY* for extra jumpers to >assist him with safety concerns in a jump from a caraboo. He paid $15 >X 3 (or 4), and ended up jumping a 3000. He was going throught the >"bomb bay door" between the pilots, and needed help to make sure that >he didn't hit anything or have anything hit him. A photographer went >out the back door in synchrony to photograph the dive. Pretty neat >stunt, but also a pretty expensive way to get a dive from 3 grand. > >It's tought to say what *YOU* would do in the situation until *YOU* >are actually there, so please refrain from judging other's motives or >capabilities. You may have tried, and bounced with the guy. You may >have tried, and gotten ground rush at 2 grand. You may have saved >him, but still bounced. YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!!!!! > >Don't be so quick to condemn a guy who *SURVIVED* an attempt to save >the life of one who *DIED*. > >This is real life, not a mini-series. > I was there for Scotty's Caribou jump. I recall that he did indeed exit at @3,000'. He also dumped at @1,000'... John
mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Mike Spurgeon) (03/20/91)
>>Yeah, but in his defense, I have seen him *PAY* for extra jumpers to >>assist him with safety concerns in a jump from a caraboo. He paid $15 >>X 3 (or 4), and ended up jumping a 3000. He was going through the >>"bomb bay door" between the pilots, and needed help to make sure that >>he didn't hit anything or have anything hit him. A photographer went >>out the back door in synchrony to photograph the dive. Pretty neat >>stunt, but also a pretty expensive way to get a dive from 3 grand. ASSIST HIM WITH SAFETY CONCERNS???? He paid what he had to to make the jump! It wasn't something so noble as safety concerns. Having said that, I must say that he can be very generous with his time, knowledge, and equipment. > I was there for Scotty's Caribou jump. I recall that he did indeed > exit at @3,000'. He also dumped at @1,000'... Ah, yes! Safety concerns! Most of those who have watched Scotty's antics over the years are finding them less and less entertaining, and more and more of a hinderance to their enjoyment of what they do. He JUST DOESN'T CARE about others. Those who saw his 'act' at the New River Gorge Bridge this past October know exactly what I mean. Mike Spurgeon West Virginia Skydivers P.O. Box 1 Jackson County Airport Athens OH 45701 Millwood WV 25262 Internet: mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu