bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) (03/18/91)
Yesterday, I was witness to what very easily could have been a plane crash and 4 fatalities. We were climbing out of a Cessna (185, I think) to do a 4-way from 9500. Person 1 had one foot on the step, the other dangling. Person 2 was to sit in the crotch between the strut and the body of the plane. I was third out, to be on the step. As I was climbing out (hands on the door frame, leaning out, I saw a flash of movement, and looking down I saw a pilot chute attached to a bunch of lines, all of which were looped around the step AND the strut. Person 2, as far as I could tell was gone. Meanwhile, Person 1 was frantically trying to get the lines wrapped around his foot (and the step) free. (He has over 2500 jumps) I screamed at him, something incoherent about getting the hell out of here, and about then he got free and left. I immediately jumped, pushing myself far enough out to clear the tangles around the step and strut. After watching plane between my legs as I dove down, I saw no one else exit. I watched Person 2 come down under his reserve (round, Phantom, he opened it at about 2000. He has in the neighborhood of 1500 jumps). The plane landed. I expected the tangled main would open, and the whole mess would plummet to the ground. There was *no way* I was staying in the plane. The pilot (2 jumps) had stopped person 4 (1000+ jumps) from leaving, and they had managed to get the lines, the pilot chute and the bag inside the plane, and land uneventfully. Only one locking loop kept the main from deploying: this would have spelled rather certain disaster, had it openned. --- Talking to Person 2 afterward, it was decided that he must have brushed against the side of the plane, releasing his pin, and letting the bag drop out of the container. He said that he immediately let go, and when he was stuck hanging, cut away. Amazing reflexes, as I was following him out, and I didn't see more than a flash. --- This whole incident brings up a few points. 1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would have deployed into the mess on the plane. 2) Things go wrong *so fast*. You blink and you miss the entire thing. 3) If Person 4 had followed me out, the pilot might not have been able to save the plane. I suspect much more turbulence would have opened up the main bag. Discussion is welcome. If I haven't explained things completely, feel free to ask for elaboration. --- The moral of the story is simple. When climbing out, make sure you aren't rubbing against anything if at all possible. Don't just concern yourself with the pilot chute, be aware of the bridle which may run along the outside of your container. --- Caveat: The main, bag, etc were recovered without having to cut them. I can't believe it didn't either deploy or have to be cut away. --- Barry Brumitt A-12269 (36 jumps) Oh, For those that responded, I'm not moving out to Stanford after all, I'll be here in Pittsburgh for the next 5 years, getting a PhD in Robotics.
ds4a@dalton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Dale Southard) (03/19/91)
In article <8bt3JYm00V86NdvX4E@andrew.cmu.edu> bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: > > > >Yesterday, I was witness to what very easily could have been a plane >crash and 4 fatalities. > >[stuff deleted] > >Talking to Person 2 afterward, it was decided that he must have brushed >against the side of the plane, releasing his pin, and letting the bag >drop out of the container. He said that he immediately let go, and when he was >stuck hanging, cut away. > >[more stuff deleted] Actually, this occurs more than it should -- I know of three other such "incidents". Out of interest -- What kind of rig does person 2 own? Is the velcro well maintained? I ask because two of the three cases I know of occured with National Parachute "mirage" containers or "Rapid Transit" sytems, which are just about identical. Both have a main container flap that opens sideways from left to right, making it an easy target for the doorframe of a C-182. And once that flap is gone...the pin can come soon after. (The third incident, BTW, involved a Tandem rig and its RESERVE. Luckly, the reserve opened cleanly and did not wrap around/entangle with the aircraft. But I was told it was still pretty exciting,) I should mention here the importance of gear maintainence -- mainly because I am a poor rigger, but also because properly maintained gear is less likely to incure such problems. Note that I am not saying that "Person 2" was negligent in his gear maintaince, only that proper maintaince can reduce these types of incidents. --> --> Dale UVa (ds4a@virginia.edu)
jnrees@athena.mit.edu (Jim Rees) (03/19/91)
In article <8bt3JYm00V86NdvX4E@andrew.cmu.edu> bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: >--- >Talking to Person 2 afterward, it was decided that he must have brushed >against the side of the plane, releasing his pin, and letting the bag >drop out of the container. He said that he immediately let go, and when he was >stuck hanging, cut away. > .... >1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would >have deployed into the mess on the plane. I don't really see this at all. If I understand this correctly, he was hanging below the step suspended by his tangled main. If he had an RSL, then upon cutting away he would have a reserve deployment similar to a static-line assist deployment. If the plane wasn't flying level, then *maybe* the reserve pilot chute could get wrapped up on something. Otherwise, I don't think a reserve entanglement is probable. Jim Rees D-13359
michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) (03/19/91)
bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: >Yesterday, I was witness to what very easily could have been a plane >crash and 4 fatalities. We nearly had a similar accident a while ago, out of a Twin Bonanza. Since we do not have an in-flight door, and things get rather cold in winter, we decided to construct a cheap in-flight door ourselves. Basically, it looks much like a roller blind that is attached to the inside top of the door frame. It is simply a piece of strong, fabric reinforced plastic a bit larger than the door frame, with a few plastic stiffeners sewn in. A strip of 2 inch velcro (hook) is glued to the inside wall around the door frame, and the velcro pile is sewn onto the roller blind. To close the door, you simply unroll the blind and velcro it onto the frame. Some time before exit, the door gets rolled up again and is secured with a few leather straps at the top of the frame. The problem occurred when a jumper was sitting beside the door on takeoff, with a belly-band throwaway container. The handle on the pilot chute was a cushion covered with a material that is very much like velcro pile. As we got close to lift-off (the in-flight door was still open), he moved slightly, brushing the pilot chute handle against the door frame. Of course, it immediately stuck to the velcro hook on the frame, and it pulled his pilot chute halfway out of the pouch before I yelled at him to grab it. This was rather scary, I mentally aready saw him disappear out the door, possible crashing the plane in the process... On the same flight, the exact same thing happened again, as the same jumper was spotting. After the jump, he immediately removed the cushion handle from the pilot chute and replaced it with a normal PVC tube handle. We still need to change the setup of the in-flight door though, in Australia all students jump SOS containers, and the reserve release handle is covered with velcro pile. A good many experienced jumpers use the SOS system too. Moral: If you want to build an in flight door like ours, don't make the mistake of glueing the velcro hook on the door frame - do it the other way round, and things should be much safer then. Michi. -- -m------- Michael Henning +61 75 950255 ---mmm----- Pyramid Technology +61 75 522475 FAX -----mmmmm--- Research Park, Bond University michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au -------mmmmmmm- Gold Coast, Q 4229, AUSTRALIA uunet!munnari!ptcburp.oz!michi
michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) (03/19/91)
bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: >1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would ^^^ Sorry to be so ignorant, but what is an RSL ? Michi. -- -m------- Michael Henning +61 75 950255 ---mmm----- Pyramid Technology +61 75 522475 FAX -----mmmmm--- Research Park, Bond University michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au -------mmmmmmm- Gold Coast, Q 4229, AUSTRALIA uunet!munnari!ptcburp.oz!michi
bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) (03/19/91)
>What's an RSL?
Reserve Static Line. He was hanging with face at strut level, so I think it
would have been *possible* for the automatically deploying main to get into
the prop blast and wrapped around something. All this is speculation, and I
may be completely wrong.
Also, I'd like to mention that I retain copyright on the words posted in my
previous message. This notice isn't necessary, as I would retain that right
anyways. I add this because I have heard that these posts sometimes get used
in periodicals without the author's consent. No flames please!
Accident reports are valuable so we can all learn ways of being safer!
Barry
A-12269ds4a@dalton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Dale Southard) (03/20/91)
In article <356@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au> michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) writes: >bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: > >>1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would > ^^^ > >Sorry to be so ignorant, but what is an RSL ? > Don't worry, you're not that ignorant :-) RSL = Reserve Static Line also called a "Stevens Line" It is a line connecting one or both of the main risers to the reserve ripcord or pin. When you cut the main away, the departing risers then "pull" your reserve for you. It is simular in concept to the "SOS" (Single Operation System) that uses one handle to both release the main and deploy the reserve. Both are designed to ensure reserve deployment after a breakaway. Your friendly net-rigger. --> --> Dale UVa (ds4a@virginia.edu)
mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Mike Spurgeon) (03/20/91)
>Yesterday, I was witness to what very easily could have been a plane >crash and 4 fatalities. Sounds to me more like 'a plane crash and _possible_ fatalities. The pilot _was_ wearing a parachute, wasn't he? If he wasn't, he was both illegal and stupid. It's probably safe to assume the 4th jumper _was_ wearing a parachute, and could have exited. >The pilot (2 jumps) had stopped person 4 (1000+ jumps) from leaving, >and they had managed to get the lines, the pilot chute and the bag inside the >plane, and land uneventfully. >Only one locking loop kept the main from deployment: this would have >spelled rather certain disaster, had it opened. Since those 'on the scene' sucessfully solved the problem, we probably shouldn't try to second guess them. However, a hook knife should have been 'standard equipment' for all four jumpers AND the glove box of the aircraft. It certainly would have been my 'weapon of chioce'. >Talking to Person 2 afterward, it was decided that he must have brushed >against the side of the plane, releasing his pin, and letting the bag >drop out of the container. He said that he immediately let go, and when he was >stuck hanging, cut away. >Amazing reflexes, as I was following him out, I didn't see more than a >flash. Since I work with students every week, and expect 'the improbable and the impossible' at all times, somehow none of this seems too unusual. We are taught (or should be) that when such things happen, it is _ALWAYS_ fast and unexpected. If you didn't learn about inadvertant openings and how to deal with them in your first jump course, then NOW would be the proper time to start thinking about it. Climb-out from _any_ aircraft is an especially dangerous time, both to the jumper and to the aircraft. Blue skies, Mike Spurgeon | My belief is that, while we should have the P.O. Box 1 | greatest respect for reality, we should not Athens OH 45701 | let it control our lives. Internet: mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
chrise@wa4mei.UUCP (Chris England) (03/20/91)
In <1991Mar18.213029.20717@athena.mit.edu> jnrees@athena.mit.edu (Jim Rees) writes: >In article <8bt3JYm00V86NdvX4E@andrew.cmu.edu> bb1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Barry Lowell Brumitt) writes: >>--- >>Talking to Person 2 afterward, it was decided that he must have brushed >>against the side of the plane, releasing his pin, and letting the bag >>drop out of the container. He said that he immediately let go, and when he was >>stuck hanging, cut away. >> >.... >>1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would >>have deployed into the mess on the plane. I was witness to a similar "near accident". A friend of mine and I were on the last load of the day, and planned on turning multiple points on a two-way. I was following him out of the aircraft (c-182), when I noticed his reserve pilot chut burbling slightly. I reacted suddenly by shoving him off of the step, as he was unaware of what was behind him. I would guess that when the reserve deployed, his head missed the elevator by about 3 feet. Now, as controversial as my actions may have been, the point is, pin checks always need to be administered. In his case, I didn't check his pin, or know if anyone did. This was the first series of post student status jumps that he had made, so he may have been preoccupied with jump-jitters. This could have been a very serious situation, not to mention that he was under a round canopy at 9,800 feet. By the time he landed, it was very dark, and he never had a round jump. Luckily, he found transportation, and didn't hurt much. -- Chris England A-11215 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brock Control Systems, Inc. | SF rule #161: Remember that your weapon was Technical Support | made by the lowest bidder! tel: +800 444 3070 |
ryoder@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert W Yoder) (03/20/91)
In article <1085@wa4mei.UUCP>, chrise@wa4mei.UUCP (Chris England) writes: [text deleted] > I was witness to a similar "near accident". A friend of mine and I were > on the last load of the day, and planned on turning multiple points on a > two-way. I was following him out of the aircraft (c-182), when I noticed his > reserve pilot chut burbling slightly. I reacted suddenly by shoving him > off of the step, as he was unaware of what was behind him. I would guess > that when the reserve deployed, his head missed the elevator by about > 3 feet. Now, as controversial as my actions may have been, the point > is, pin checks always need to be administered. A fellow I knew was getting ready to make a solo exit from the step of a 182 one day, when he realized his backpack was snagged on something. As he struggled to free it, the pilot suddenly saw the main pilot chute leave his back, and responded by stomping full right rudder. The fellow was ripped off of the step by the inflating canopy. Thanks to the pilots' quick thinking, no damage was done. Unfortunately, I had exited a few seconds earlier, so I missed all the fun. :-) "You should have seen his face when he left!", the pilot gleefully told us. The rig in question was gutter gear, and the ripcord housing had looped on the hook-shaped door handle. It was replaced by a D-shaped handle after this incident. -- Robert Yoder "It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are?" 306 Hawkins Graduate House Internet: ryoder@ecn.purdue.edu West Lafayette, IN 47906 Bitnet: ryoder%ecn.purdue.edu@purccvm (317)495-6845 N9CON UUCP: {purdue, pur-ee}!ecn.purdue.edu!ryoder
SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG (SKYDIVE) (03/22/91)
Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer) Fido-To: uiucuxc!athena.mit.edu!jnrees In a message of <Mar 18 21:23>, Uiucuxc!Athena.Mit.Edu!Jnrees (1:233/15) writes: >1) If Person 2 had an RSL there is a good chance his reserve would >have deployed into the mess on the plane. U> I don't really see this at all. If I understand this correctly, he U> was hanging below the step suspended by his tangled main. If he had U> an RSL, then upon cutting away he would have a reserve deployment U> similar to a static-line assist deployment. If the plane wasn't U> flying level, then *maybe* the reserve pilot chute could get wrapped U> up on something. Otherwise, I don't think a reserve entanglement is U> probable. You are correct. There is no way that he could have had anything but a clean deployment. No different from any other cutaway. If anything, maybe even safer. --- msged 2.07 --- eecp 1.45 LM2 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd. (1:102/853) -- SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13 (ehsnet.fidonet.org)