nouveaux@poipu.EBay.Sun.COM (John J. Nouveaux, Sun Microsystems Education) (04/09/91)
Friends, I'm posting this for my wife. Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably in the San Francisco Bay Area)? My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school which uses (in our and a former instructor friend of mine opinions) several unsafe practices for first-jumpers (including not following several of USPA's regulations/recommendations). Having been a jumper myself (back in the summer of '78 under Perry Stevens [Mr. Safety] at Antioch CA), I have a concern not only for the safety of future students at this place (to remain nameless here) but also for the reputation of the sport. Thanks for any leads/assistance. john -- "Beer! Now there's a temporary solution." - Homer Simpson John J. Nouveaux, Instructor ARPA: jnouveaux@sun.com Sun Microsystems UUCP: sun!jnouveaux
jerrys@mobby.umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) (04/09/91)
In article <6107@male.EBay.Sun.COM> nouveaux@poipu.EBay.Sun.COM (John J. Nouveaux, Sun Microsystems Education) writes: >Friends, > >I'm posting this for my wife. > >Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably >in the San Francisco Bay Area)? > >My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school >which uses (in our and a former instructor friend of mine opinions) >several unsafe practices for first-jumpers (including not following >several of USPA's regulations/recommendations). > >Having been a jumper myself (back in the summer of '78 under Perry >Stevens [Mr. Safety] at Antioch CA), I have a concern not only for the >safety of future students at this place (to remain nameless here) but >also for the reputation of the sport. > >Thanks for any leads/assistance. > >john >-- John: I do not know of any attorney's in the Bay Area (nor am I one myself). But I would be appreciative if you could email me or post more info on the situation resulting in your wife's injuries. I have been instructing and jumpmastering for 10 years and try to stay in touch with student training and problems that come up. Perhaps some questions: 1. How do you know this DZ was not a USPA affiliate? Were you or she aware of this before making the jump? 2. How do you know the student training curriculum did not follow USPA doctrine? Specificly, what was it that was non-standard? Which training program was she in? (E.g. Static line, AFF, Tandem, etc.) 3. What was the nature of your wife's injury? (e.g. a sprained ankle or fractured vertebra?) 4. How did it occur? What was the JM's log entry in her logbook? 5. What was the response of the DZ upon learning a student had been injured? 6. How long has it been since your wife was injured? How long prior to that since your previous jump? What is your experience level? 7. Did the DZ have your wife sign any waivers or "informed consent" releases prior to training? I guess a lot of the info I am curious about is the DZ - was it a big/small operation, what type of aircraft, how long in operation, etc. What was your criteria for selecting that DZ over others in the vicinity? Thanks for any info. Jerry D-7644 -- Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu Jerry Sobieski UUCP: uunet!mimsy!jerrys UMIACS - Univ. of Maryland Phone: (301)405-6735 College Park, Md 20742
robie@umbc1.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD)) (04/09/91)
In article <6107@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, nouveaux@poipu.EBay.Sun.COM (John J. Nouveaux, Sun Microsystems Education) writes... >Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably >in the San Francisco Bay Area)? > >My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school >which uses (in our and a former instructor friend of mine opinions) >several unsafe practices for first-jumpers (including not following >several of USPA's regulations/recommendations). John - I really hate to sound like I am not sympathetic, because I am most deeply sorry that your wife was injured. I do, however, feel compelled to make the following comments: If you, as an experienced skydiver, had doubts about this operation...why did your wife go there? While I heartily recommend USPA affiliated drop zones, the USPA is not a legislative body. Violation of USPA safety regulations is, in itself, not necessarily a violation of FAA law and not following the suggested safety rules of a private organization (USPA) is not necessarily negligence. I think what concerns me the most is that you and your wife are angry, hurt, and litigiously inclined against a sport that we all share - a sport that CLEARLY INVOLVES RISK AND THE ASSUMPTION OF RISK BY ITS PARTICIPANTS! Sport parachuting is not a carnival ride where you are guaranteed a measure of safety. By participating, you assume the major share of the risk. If there was clear and intentional malice or obvious negligence on the part of the drop zone, then you probably have some cause for legal action (no - I am not an attorney and am expressing only opinion) but you may find little support among us. You have not told us what your claim(s) is(are), but generally, skydiving accidents come under "acts of God". Lawsuits against the sport (especially if they happen to be frivilous) are against all of us. They escalate the cost of operator liability insurance and that makes things more expensive for us all. If these people are really operating in an unsafe or illegal manner, file against them with the FAA.
wtm%gr.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Thomas McCollough) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr9.045645.15819@umbc3.umbc.edu> robie@umbc1.umbc.edu writes: >In article <6107@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, nouveaux@poipu.EBay.Sun.COM (John J. Nouveaux, Sun Microsystems Education) writes... >>Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably >>in the San Francisco Bay Area)? >> >>My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school >>which uses (in our and a former instructor friend of mine opinions) >>several unsafe practices for first-jumpers (including not following >>several of USPA's regulations/recommendations). > >John - > >I really hate to sound like I am not sympathetic, because I am most deeply >sorry that your wife was injured. I do, however, feel compelled to make >the following comments: [Comments deleted.] Robie's comments are my own. And I also agree with the poster who asked for more information. But at first glance, this public request for legal recommendations is a slap in the face to those of us who realize we are responsible for our own actions. Isn't that almost everyone who reads this bulletin board? The concept of assumed risk should be well understood by experienced skydivers, and especially by skydiving instructors. Tom McCollough
ds4a@dalton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Dale Southard) (04/10/91)
In article <6107@male.EBay.Sun.COM> nouveaux@poipu.EBay.Sun.COM (John J. Nouveaux, Sun Microsystems Education) writes: >Friends, > >Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably >in the San Francisco Bay Area)? > >My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school >which uses (in our and a former instructor friend of mine opinions) >several unsafe practices for first-jumpers (including not following >several of USPA's regulations/recommendations). John -- I would be interested in hearing an account of the incident -- e-mail please, not the network. I am curious as how the "injury" would be caused by the DZ -- other than extreme incompetence in training, it is hard to cause "injury" to someone else. Or perhaps you are talking about gear maintance, etc? I should mention that "non-USPA" does not mean it is inherently unsafe. My old DZ was not a USPA member DZ, but that had nothing to due with rules, just with paying the $75 a year. All of our instructors/Jumpmasters were USPA rated. All the FARs & BSRs were followed, we just weren't group members. Also note that things have changed a LOT since '78 -- for the better. Your training and your "former instructor friend's" training, as well as the BSRs are very different. There is also at least one traning system (Strong's Tandem/solo drogue training method) that uses techniques very different from USPA reccomended, yet is "acknowledged" by the FAA. I am not saying that the DZ is safe, just that it is not necessarily unsafe. Suing a safe DZ doesn't do much for the "reputation of the sport". (Actually, suing an unsafe one doesn't do much for it either, but it sure is hard to feel sorry for the unsafe DZs). --> --> Dale UVa (ds4a@virginia.edu)
karenk@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Karen Klemm) (04/11/91)
***SARCASM ON*** > > Anyone know the names of any skydiving literate attorneys (preferrably > in the San Francisco Bay Area)? > In a city like San Francisco, I would imagine any *good* "skydiving literate" attorney would advertise his "skills", via such reputable media as television, billboards, and the sides of taxis and city buses. Maybe check there. And remember, \/\/! (SHE signed a waiver (I would think)) ***SARCASM OFF*** But seriously... On this net, we LIKE the sport of skydiving. Legal squabbles do nothing but give the sport bad publicity. Unless you post further details about your particular situation, it will be very difficult for anyone in this group to give advice, or to even determine if your wife has any kind of a valid claim. The first two responses were very good in specifying what information would be useful. > > My wife was injured on her first jump last summer at a non-USPA school > Be aware of this: USPA-rated jumpmasters and instructors may teach at non-USPA organizations. > > Having been a jumper myself (back in the summer of '78 under Perry > Stevens [Mr. Safety] at Antioch CA), I have a concern not only for the > safety of future students at this place (to remain nameless here) but > also for the reputation of the sport. > I commend you for not publicly condemning the particular drop zone in question. While some details are necessary, all details are not. Since your post lacked so many details, I would like to say this: A lot has changed in the sport of skydiving since '78. Practices that would have been condemned back then are now accepted and widely practiced. Some examples: 1) Students jumping square mains. If squares even existed in '78, they weren't reliable and docile enough for students. 2) Freefall on a first jump. Tandem and AFF didn't exist back then. S/L was the only way. 3) Canopy relative work. People didn't regularly do CRW with rounds. Since I'm not sure of your experience or familiarity with skydiving today, I want to assume that you may not be aware of common practices. Karen Klemm D-11813, AFF JM