galperin@husc9.harvard.edu (Gregory Galperin) (04/05/91)
In the June '90 _Parachutist_, Paul Sitter (D-2714, USPA's Safety & Training
Committee member) reports:
"...it appears that about 50% of skydivers reaching A license[s]
were graduates of an AFF program."
There's a pretty good statistic for you, John. Let's see, with about 1,000
new A-licenses a year, and at least 7 AFF jumps before graduating, that makes
at least 3,500 AFF student jumps -- every year!
The bottom line is that AFF is a pretty prevalent program for training
skydivers, and has a phenomenal safety record.
Safe Skies!------------+
!
+-----------=> Greg Galperin
galperin@husc9.harvard.edujerrys@mobby.umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) (04/06/91)
In article <1991Apr5.000233.424@husc3.harvard.edu> galperin@husc9.harvard.edu (Gregory Galperin) writes: >In the June '90 _Parachutist_, Paul Sitter (D-2714, USPA's Safety & Training >Committee member) reports: > > "...it appears that about 50% of skydivers reaching A license[s] > were graduates of an AFF program." > >There's a pretty good statistic for you, John. Let's see, with about 1,000 >new A-licenses a year, and at least 7 AFF jumps before graduating, that makes >at least 3,500 AFF student jumps -- every year! I just spoke with Clint Vincent (USPA Safety and Training Dir). He says the USPA does not have any firm numbers as to AFF jumps made last year. There are no reporting requirements past those necessary for rating renewals. However, extrapolating from "personal knowledge" and the above numbers... The fact that 50% of A-licenses were AFF grads might give you a very bottom figure for number of annual AFF jumps. But the 3500 mentioned above is *very* low. At Chambersburg last year we trained 600+ 1st jumpers. I would guess 90% were AFF. I know of 2 or three other DZs that between them would exceed 3500 jumps - just in 1st jumps, not to mention subsequent levels. I would guess the number of Aff jumps far exceeds 3500, probably well over 10,000 nationwide. And remember, there are international AFF programs using USPA rated AFF jms also, and the military does AFF as well. While I know there are renegade DZs that use similar training programs w/out USPA rated JMs, I believe they are few. The USPA AFF certification course is grueling. And expects a great deal of air skills. The fact that this is the 1st AFF fatallity since the programs inception (I was AFF certified in '82) is really remarkable and attests to the thoroughness of the program, its administrators (USPA), evaluators, and especially the Jumpmasters and Instructors. Anyone who doubts the validity of the program's public performance record just isn't properly informed. Blue Skies! Jerry AFF/I-82 D-7644 -- Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu Jerry Sobieski UUCP: uunet!mimsy!jerrys UMIACS - Univ. of Maryland Phone: (301)405-6735 College Park, Md 20742
jenings@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Byron Jenings) (04/09/91)
John P. Jackson <toad@athena.mit.edu> writes: |> It's pretty amazing there's hasn't been more students go in. I've surely |>seen and heard enough about close ones of the years. I'd really like to |>know how many AFF jumps are made. Maybe there aren't as many as we think. | I have no statistics to readily quote, but I think that the above | statement comes from a person | who is very out of touch with the outside world. Anyone | aggree/disagree? Sounds a little out of touch to me. I know, having tried both, that I've been much more impressed with the AFF approach than other methods. I did 5 static line jumps in college, took a 5-year break, and then a "fun" tandem followed by two AFF jumps, one of which was tandem. I was very impressed with the training for the freefall portion, and think that this is a much more sane approach that the hop-n-pop instruction. As it turns out, however, on my last AFF I went over-analytic during the canopy ride and did a downwind landing because I was focusing on a bunch of irrelevant details (my fault, entirely). I ended up badly dislocating my shoulder, which has pretty much ended my skydiving career (I wind-tunnel tested my airframe at Fly-Away to see if I had recovered, and I experienced structural failure). Since I can't skydive, I've been trying some flying lessons. The first thing that struck me was the difference in instruction. Things progress very slowly, with lots of practice with an instructor nearby to help and answer questions on the spot, and re-creation of minor problems (stall, etc.). My first thought was "gee, I wish the AFF program had begun with several tandem jumps with intensive canopy instruction". I think the sport of skydiving could learn a lot from aviation instruction. If I ever get my shoulder fixed and decide to get back into it, I'd definitely do about five tandem jumps first before re-starting AFF. I don't think I'd ever try a static line jump again until I'd passed the AFF program. footnote: The tandem, AFF, and pilot instruction all took place at the airfield discussed in the basenote. In general, I was very impressed with the instruction that I received at Skydive Colorado. Although I feel I received adequate ground training (maybe too much) and had done several static line jumps under round canopy years earlier, nothing can substitute for actually doing these things with somebody around to talk you through it real-time. My comments are directed at AFF in general, not at the particular instruction I received. So anybody agree, or am I just a wimpy bozo?
ds4a@dalton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Dale Southard) (04/11/91)
In article <8570006@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM> jenings@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Byron Jenings) writes: >Sounds a little out of touch to me. I know, having tried both, that >I've been much more impressed with the AFF approach than other >methods. I did 5 static line jumps in college, took a 5-year break, >and then a "fun" tandem followed by two AFF jumps, one of which was >tandem. I was very impressed with the training for the freefall >[lots of comments deleted] >So anybody agree, or am I just a wimpy bozo? Well I am rated as both an AFF and a Static Line instructor. There has been a lot of talk on GEnie as of late predicting the demise of SL in favor of AFF. It just ain't so. OK, don't get me wrong, AFF offers many advantages. But after the first 100 jumps, I don't think anyone could say they could tell the difference between a former AFF student and a former SL student. There just isn't a difference. AFF offers the advantage of lots of time 1-on-1 with the instructor. It should also be noted that the requirements for AFF instructors are more demanding than those for SL instructors. AFF students also have more air time for their number of jumps than SL students do. All this results in giving the student a superior start as a future skydiver. But, SL students have the price advantage. AFF can cost as much as 4 times what SL costs -- if the student makes 4 times as many jumps as an AFF student... There are also usually more SL JMs/Is at any given DZ, giving the student a wider choice of compatable personalities to select a mentor from. It is also often easier to get jumps in as a SL student -- on a busy day at the DZ, it is easy to have all of the AFF jms tied up -- and usually very easy to drop a SL freefaller off on the way to altitude. And note that I, as well as all other instructors that are both AFF & SL rated that I know, do not give SL students second-rate treatment. Each student is an individual, and the fact that it was easier to qualify for SL I status does not mean that I can loaf off when I work with SL students. I consider myself to be equally good as a SL and AFF instructor. Finally, tandem can play a role too. I often coordinated w/ the tandem master to get a 1/2 price tandem jump for student (AFF or SL) that had problems with canopy control (an area where tandem instruction provides a definite edge). Likewise, both the SL and AFF students often did an initial tandem to explore the sport before commiting to the time & cost of training. In short, though I firmly believe that AFF can provide a superior start in the world of skydiving, the real critical time is the 25-100 jump range. It is during that time that the magical zoomie --> skydiver transition occurs. I can start the student down the road, but it is the student him/herself that will ultimately determine how good a skydiver he/she becomes. Anyone can fall stable and turn, only skydivers can fly. Personal reccomendation: if you are thinking of trying skydiving, find a DZ that offers all three types of training (AFF, Static line, Tandem). Most DZs offer transition training between the various programs (aka you can start as a SL jumper, then switch to AFF if you have a particular problem that is better addressed in that enviroment). Then pick the training/instructor that seems right for you. --> --> Dale UVa (ds4a@virginia.edu)