ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.114807.1@st1.vuw.ac.nz> strahd@st1.vuw.ac.nz writes: > >Could parachuting be considered attempted suicide...with a success >being when the chute doesn't open? > At the risk of giving a more serious response to this than it deserves, if the person really wanted to kill themselves, they would not even wear a parachute. Also, jumping with a reserve parachute tends to increase the probability of survival so that it is even less a suicide attempt. Many jumpers also use automatic activation devices (AAD's) which automatically pull the reserve when the jumper velocity exceeds, and the altitude falls below, set thresholds. Again, setting this device might be viewed as an attempt to reduce the probability of death so as not to make it a suicide attempt. And yet at the same time, much as parachutists like to deny it, there is an elemental thrill in taking part in an activity which should by all logic lead to inevitable death. This thrill tends to defeat the logic of probabilities, and the fact that parachutists feel this thrill is evidenced by jokes about "crater parties" and "going in" and so forth. One might view parachuting as being qualitatively similar to Sylvia Plath's death, where one takes an action *expecting* that something or someone will intervene to prevent death, but part of the reason one takes the action is that there is a possibility the intervention won't come about. However, parachutists tend to be *extremely* optimistic and joyful people, and this seems remarkably at odds with the stereotype of the suicide victim as a depressed loser. I doubt very many parachutists would commit suicide in the more conventional sense. -- David W. Ash | "Being in a minority, even a minority of one, ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu | does not make one insane." HOME: (415) 497-1629 | WORK: (415) 725-3859 | --Winston Smith in Orwell's "1984".
kovar@eclectic.COM (David C. Kovar) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.233812.29102@neon.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes: >In article <1991Jun11.114807.1@st1.vuw.ac.nz> strahd@st1.vuw.ac.nz writes: >> >>Could parachuting be considered attempted suicide...with a success >>being when the chute doesn't open? >> >And yet at the same time, much as parachutists like to deny it, there is an >elemental thrill in taking part in an activity which should by all logic lead >to inevitable death. A friend and I used to describe skydiving to wuffos like this: It's the only sport where you have to actively save your life every time out. Don't pull, don't live. (Hi Dan!) It's not attempted suicide, but it's close enough to convince your body that it's about to die, which is certainly a kick in a weird way... -- -David C. Kovar Consultant Internet: kovar@eclectic.com Eclectic Associates AppleLink: ECLECTIC Ma Bell: 617-643-3373 MacNET: DKovar "It is easier to get forgiveness than permission."
ds7o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel Patrick Schanbacher) (06/13/91)
> Excerpts from netnews.alt.suicide.holiday: 12-Jun-91 Re: Parachute David > C. Kovar@eclectic. (1015) > (Hi Dan!) You talking to me? I was going to commit suicide with a parachute once. All you have to do is release the main chute without deploying the reserve. But I didn't, and no one knew how close I came. Until, one night, at 3:14am, a post about parachute suicide is seen by me, Dan, who doesn't even know they mysterious author, David Kovar, who posted the cryptic statement cited above. Weird. --- dan
tb2@doc.ic.ac.uk (Timothy Brown) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun11.233812.29102@neon.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes: >In article <1991Jun11.114807.1@st1.vuw.ac.nz> strahd@st1.vuw.ac.nz writes: >> >>Could parachuting be considered attempted suicide...with a success >>being when the chute doesn't open? >> >At the risk of giving a more serious response to this than it deserves, if >the person really wanted to kill themselves, they would not even wear a >parachute. Also, jumping with a reserve parachute tends to increase the I wanna fly a plane someday, and I would not let someone jump without a parachute, or at least a soft cusion to land on. They'd probably take my licence away! Tim B> -- ___ ,-------------------------------------------------------------------. (O O) --|There is intelligent life on Earth, but I'm just visiting. | ( V ) |Anyhow, mail me from wherever you are... that's tb2@doc.ic.ac.uk | /--m-m-OWL '-(*&%^:=_~`@#!:@!!*&%) Martian Joke-------------Tim the Terrible---'
jerrys@mobby.umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun13.120512.4482@doc.ic.ac.uk> tb2@doc.ic.ac.uk (Timothy Brown) writes: >In article <1991Jun11.233812.29102@neon.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes: >>In article <1991Jun11.114807.1@st1.vuw.ac.nz> strahd@st1.vuw.ac.nz writes: >>> >>>Could parachuting be considered attempted suicide...with a success >>>being when the chute doesn't open? >>> >>At the risk of giving a more serious response to this than it deserves, if >>the person really wanted to kill themselves, they would not even wear a >>parachute. Also, jumping with a reserve parachute tends to increase the > >I wanna fly a plane someday, and I would not let someone jump without a >parachute, or at least a soft cusion to land on. They'd probably >take my licence away! > Without flaming anyone directly here, what is this? Why do people constantly believe jumping is "suicidal". That is just plane (:-) garbage! Get this: Skydivers do *NOT* have a death wish. They are confident, calculating, daring, generally intelligent, competitive individuals who like to go out and have some good physical fun. Just like waterskiers, rollercoaster riders, motorcycle riders, raquetball/tennis, football, blah blah blah. And they are far more safety conscious than damn near any other sport I've ever come across. This myth has been promulgated for years by people who are too scared/lazy to learn about the sport (much less try it). There are far easier ways to kill one's self. Ask the 430,000 smokers who die *each year*. (ok.. inhale, hold it, 1,2,3, ok now exhale,...there, much better...) Hyperventalating is something that should occur at 14000' on jump run, NOT at my workstation(:-) Blue Skies Jerry -- Domain: jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu Jerry Sobieski UUCP: uunet!mimsy!jerrys UMIACS - Univ. of Maryland Phone: (301)405-6735 College Park, Md 20742