bunda@cs.utexas.edu (John Bunda) (06/20/91)
In article <35803@mimsy.umd.edu> jerrys@umiacs.umd.edu (Jerry Sobieski) writes: >... if the student was out of it, the JM was supposed to do this >Rambo imitation, where, with flip-knife firmly gripped between teeth, he >would attach a caribiner (sp) to his harnes and the static line, let himself >slowly down the static line, grab the student's reserve handle, cut the S/L, >pull the reserve, track off and dump himself. Sometime in the last couple of years I remember reading about someone doing a reality check on this strategy, and they decided that it was unworkable with a Cessna 182, which loses altitude fast with anyone (or two) outside the plane on the end of a static line. If you wonder about this, consider the fact that to maintain 60-70 knots with the power cut (typical static line jump situation), your 182 is already descending at a good clip, usually about 1000 fpm (depending on how heavy you are). -- John Bunda * bunda@cs.utexas.edu * {uunet,harvard}!cs.utexas.edu!bunda
mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Mike Spurgeon) (06/20/91)
In article <1563@needmore.cs.utexas.edu>, bunda@cs.utexas.edu (John Bunda) writes: > >... if the student was out of it, the JM was supposed to do this > >Rambo imitation, where, with flip-knife firmly gripped between teeth, he > >would attach a caribiner (sp) to his harnes and the static line, let himself > >slowly down the static line, grab the student's reserve handle, cut the S/L, > >pull the reserve, track off and dump himself. > > Sometime in the last couple of years I remember reading about someone > doing a reality check on this strategy, and they decided that it > was unworkable with a Cessna 182, which loses altitude fast with > anyone (or two) outside the plane on the end of a static line. I have a feeling the pilot would add power as soon as he felt the pull of the person at the end of the s/l. Our 182 flies quite well with 4 or 5 outside and in the door. Why would two on a s/l be any more difficult? I have seen this done 'for the camera' in one of Carl Boenish's films (although it was just one individual), and have seen a picture of two at the end of a s/l out of another aircraft (not a 182, maybe a Porter). MIke Spurgeon
bunda@cs.utexas.edu (John Bunda) (06/21/91)
In article <3535@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Mike Spurgeon) writes: > Our 182 flies quite well with 4 or 5 >outside and in the door. Why would two on a s/l be any more difficult? Well, as they say, your mileage may vary. Seriously though, sure, it *flies* fine, but have a glance at the VSI next time you've got a 4-way on the step, especially with the power cut back to 12" or less and maintaining 70-75mph (I do speak as an experienced jump pilot here). The airplane appears to be (and is) flying fine - it's just got the same descent rate as an open canopy - higher if you insist on a really deep cut, like s/l jumpmasters often request to reduce the prop blast for first-timers. At 10,000 feet, your 4-way can spend a while lounging on the step without noticing more than a few seconds taken off the top of the skydive. Video of an in-tow I've seen, like Wally Gubbins, was done at high altitude. However, most real static line jumps are from 3,000 AGL, leaving far less room to play with. You surely want to get that student under a canopy above 1000'. As for the airplane, the jumpers on the end of the static line plus the ailerons and rudder you need to maintain wings level are going to make it a draggy, ponderous beast to fly. Even adding power, I have my doubts about getting the thing to climb, though it would certainly help if there were no other jumpers in the plane. Having said all this, I admit I haven't tried the experiment with a static line, I just read about it somewhere, either Skydiving or Parachutist, or maybe a PIA document, I'm just relating what I remember reading. But, at the same time, I have little trouble believing it. -John -- John Bunda * bunda@cs.utexas.edu * {uunet,harvard}!cs.utexas.edu!bunda
SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG (SKYDIVE) (06/24/91)
Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer) Fido-To: uiucuxc!cs.utexas.edu!bunda >... if the student was out of it, the JM was supposed to do this >Rambo imitation, where, with flip-knife firmly gripped between teeth, he >would attach a caribiner (sp) to his harnes and the static line, let himself >slowly down the static line, grab the student's reserve handle, cut the S/L, >pull the reserve, track off and dump himself. U> Sometime in the last couple of years I remember reading about someone U> doing a reality check on this strategy, and they decided that it U> was unworkable with a Cessna 182, which loses altitude fast with U> anyone (or two) outside the plane on the end of a static line. That doesn't seem like a real problem to me. After all, we routinely put 4 and sometimes 5 people out there. It does decend, true, but there is nothing saying you have to leave the power cut either. The reality check story checks out though. What I heard as the main impediment was the fact that there was no way in hell of sliding down the static line slow enough to keep from seriously hurting one or both participants. --- msged 2.07 --- eecp 1.45 LM2 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd. (1:102/853) -- SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13 (ehsnet.fidonet.org)
lusty@scan2.tamu.edu (LUSTY WENCH) (06/27/91)
>>... the JM was supposed to do this Rambo imitation ... >there was no way in hell of sliding down the static line slow enough If Wally Gubbins can do it, why can't you? Diana Stanley stanley@scan2.tamu.edu lusty@scan2.tamu.edu draw your own conclusions
michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) (06/27/91)
SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG (SKYDIVE) writes: >Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer) >Fido-To: uiucuxc!cs.utexas.edu!bunda >>... if the student was out of it, the JM was supposed to do this >>Rambo imitation, where, with flip-knife firmly gripped between teeth, he >>would attach a caribiner (sp) to his harnes and the static line, let himself >>slowly down the static line, grab the student's reserve handle, cut the S/L, >>pull the reserve, track off and dump himself. > U> Sometime in the last couple of years I remember reading about someone > U> doing a reality check on this strategy, and they decided that it > U> was unworkable with a Cessna 182, which loses altitude fast with > U> anyone (or two) outside the plane on the end of a static line. >The reality check story checks out though. What I heard as the main >impediment was the fact that there was no way in hell of sliding down the >static line slow enough to keep from seriously hurting one or both >participants. > Before I did my first jump, I went to the local library and borrowed what they had on the subject. I can't remember the title or author, but one of the books was written by a very experienced British jumper. He described the student in tow situation in his chapter on emergencies and mentioned a case where an instructor in England actually *did* have an unconscious student in tow. He went on to say that the instructor did climb down the static line, cut it and dumped the student's reserve. Apparently the student landed still unconscious with only minor injuries. The author finally mentioned that the instructor was given the St George medal for bravery for this. Could someone in Britain maybe check this out ? Michi. -- -m------- Michael Henning +61 75 950255 ---mmm----- Pyramid Technology +61 75 522475 FAX -----mmmmm--- Research Park, Bond University michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au -------mmmmmmm- Gold Coast, Q 4229, AUSTRALIA uunet!munnari!ptcburp.oz!michi
mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Mike Spurgeon) (06/28/91)
>The reality check story checks out though. What I heard as the main >impediment was the fact that there was no way in hell of sliding down the >static line slow enough to keep from seriously hurting one or both >participants. What you heard is obviously incorrect. It's been done, at least simulating an unconscious student. I've seen the photo. Also for one of the Wally Gubbins flicks, if I'm not mistaken. Mike Spurgeon Internet: mspurgeo@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu