dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) (09/26/90)
Are there any other commercially available 88000 based systems besides Data General Aviion? -Dave "who likes to jump out of airplanes" Appel
tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) (09/27/90)
>>>>> Regarding Aviion and others?; dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) adds: dappel> Are there any other commercially available 88000 based dappel> systems besides Data General Aviion? Harris Computer Systems Division produces the Night Hawk family of real time computer systems. The latest member of that family is 88k based. (I have to get the plug for Harris in first, since I work there). Motorola Computer Systems makes the Delta 88 series of systems. Textronix and Opus make 88k based workstations. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, I am sure there are others. -- ====================================================================== domain: tahorsley@csd.harris.com USMail: Tom Horsley uucp: ...!uunet!hcx1!tahorsley 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach, FL 33444 +==== Censorship is the only form of Obscenity ======================+ | (Wait, I forgot government tobacco subsidies...) | +====================================================================+
jcallen@Encore.COM (Jerry Callen) (09/27/90)
In article <TOM.90Sep26133613@hcx2.ssd.csd.harris.com> tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: > [list of 88K system vendors, including Data General, Motorola, Harris, > Textronix and Opus] Our dear competitor failed to mention the Encore 91 Series of realtime systems (announced, now in alpha test, volume shipments early next year) carrying 2 or 4 88100s in a shared memory multiprocessor configuration. There are also a number of vendors (Force comes to mind) manufacturing VME boards carrying 88K processors. I've used an Opus "Personal Mainframe 8000" and it's not a bad Unix box. It's surprisingly fast, given that it's a coprocessor board in a stock PC/AT clone. I can't (currently) say anything about any other 88K systems. -- Jerry Callen jcallen@encore.com Claimer: If it isn't obvious from the address, I work for Encore Computer Corp.
brian@motcsd.csd.mot.com (Brian Smithson) (09/27/90)
jcallen@Encore.COM (Jerry Callen) writes: >In article <TOM.90Sep26133613@hcx2.ssd.csd.harris.com> tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: >> [list of 88K system vendors, including Data General, Motorola, Harris, >> Textronix and Opus] > [added Encore, board vendor Force ] Add Sanyo/Ikon and Dolphin to the list. And Motorola also sells boards. -- -Brian Smithson Motorola Inc., Computer Group, Computer Systems Division 10700 N. De Anza Boulevard, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA, (408)366-4104 brian@csd.mot.com, {apple | pyramid}!motcsd!brian
ggw%wolves@cs.duke.edu (Gregory G. Woodbury) (09/27/90)
In <12812@encore.Encore.COM> jcallen@Encore.COM (Jerry Callen) writes: > >In article <TOM.90Sep26133613@hcx2.ssd.csd.harris.com> >tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: > >> [list of 88K system vendors, including Data General, Motorola, Harris, >> Textronix and Opus] : >I've used an Opus "Personal Mainframe 8000" and it's not a bad Unix box. >It's surprisingly fast, given that it's a coprocessor board in a stock >PC/AT clone. I can't (currently) say anything about any other 88K systems. Over at Duke Center for Demographic Studies, we use a whole passel (well, 5 of 'em) of Opus PM-4xx (88000 based) co-processors in a variety of AT-class '286 and '386 machines. One has 2GB of SCSI disk with the new Opus drivers that let the 88000 talk directly to the scsi (bypass the DOS io system!) They are sys5 boxes with decent networking. I'll be glad to answer any other questions about them. Disclaimer: I don't speak for Duke or Opus, just me, and I happen to like the things (we do beta test a bit for opus ;-) -- Gregory G. Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...mcnc!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw%wolves@mcnc.mcnc.org [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] <standard disclaimers apply>
prc@erbe.se (Robert Claeson) (09/27/90)
In a recent article dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) writes: >Are there any other commercially available 88000 based >systems besides Data General Aviion? The Encore 91 comes to mind. -- Robert Claeson |Reasonable mailers: rclaeson@erbe.se ERBE DATA AB | Dumb mailers: rclaeson%erbe.se@sunet.se | Perverse mailers: rclaeson%erbe.se@encore.com These opinions reflect my personal views and not those of my employer.
sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) (09/27/90)
In article <TOM.90Sep26133613@hcx2.ssd.csd.harris.com> tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: >>>>>> Regarding Aviion and others?; dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) adds: > >dappel> Are there any other commercially available 88000 based >dappel> systems besides Data General Aviion? > >Harris Computer Systems Division produces the Night Hawk family of real time >Motorola Computer Systems makes the Delta 88 series of systems. >Textronix and Opus make 88k based workstations. > Other 88K vendors include Sanyo/Icon, Phillips Information (second source for Motorola), Encore and Unisys. There are also several other second source vendors, but I can't think of there names now. -- Rodney Radford DG/UX AViiON developer SAS Institute, Inc. sasrer@unx.sas.com (919) 677-8000 x7703 Box 8000, Cary, NC 27512
pds@lemming.webo.dg.com (Paul D. Smith) (09/27/90)
In article <R2a4P2w163w@grafted.UUCP> dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) writes: [] Are there any other commercially available 88000 based [] systems besides Data General Aviion? Why would anyone want any other system besides the DG AViiON? :-) -- paul ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Paul D. Smith | pds@lemming.webo.dg.com | | Data General Corp. | | | Network Services Development | "Pretty Damn S..." | | Open Network Applications Department | | ------------------------------------------------------------------
mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) (09/27/90)
In article <1990Sep27.133938.7662@unx.sas.com> sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) writes: >>>>>>> Regarding Aviion and others?; dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) adds: >> >>dappel> Are there any other commercially available 88000 based >>dappel> systems besides Data General Aviion? >>Harris Computer Systems Division produces the Night Hawk family of real time Could you say when those started shipping? >>Motorola Computer Systems makes the Delta 88 series of systems. >>Textronix and Opus make 88k based workstations. >Other 88K vendors include Sanyo/Icon, Phillips Information (second source >for Motorola), Encore and Unisys. There are also several other second >source vendors, but I can't think of there names now. Has Phillips actually announced an 88K system product? (also, could somebody point me at something that talks about Phillips being a second soruce for 88Ks? Is that true?) As noted earlier, Encore is in Alpha, with production scheduled for 1Q91. Unisys, although committed to 88K, has not yet announced a product. Note that the ORIGINAL question was "commercially available systems": US: DG, Motorola, Opus, Tektronix, Sanyo/Icon have been shipping for a while. Japan: Omron is shipping an 88K-based workstation called "Luna". Europe: Norsk Data (Norway) ships 88K-based servers. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
ahlenius@motcid.UUCP (Mark Ahlenius) (09/28/90)
>>>dappel> Are there any other commercially available 88000 based >>>dappel> systems besides Data General Aviion? As previously mentioned, Motorola is one supplier of such a system. We purchased a Delta system last spring, ours includes a dual 88k processor system running sys V. We also bought two NCD X-server terminals to use with the box. I am quite impressed with the speed of the unit, and the NCD terminals. If you have any questions about the unit - feel free to contact me. I am just a user -*NOT* a salesperson. Also Tektronix recently brought out a new 88k board for the Mac II series - the RP88k - its really a coprocessor board for the Mac and you can get their C and Fortran Compiler for it. 'mark -- =============== regards 'mark ============================================= Mark Ahlenius voice:(708)-632-5346 email: uunet!motcid!ahleniusm Motorola Inc. fax: (708)-632-2413 Arlington, Hts. IL, USA 60004
lkaplan@bbn.com (Larry Kaplan) (09/28/90)
There is also the BBN TC2000, currently available with 16-63 88Ks in one machine. You can at least double that number within 6 months. _______________________________________________________________________________ ____ \ / ____ Laurence S. Kaplan | \ 0 / | BBN Advanced Computers lkaplan@bbn.com \____|||____/ 10 Fawcett St. (617) 873-2431 /__/ | \__\ Cambridge, MA 02238
michael@mcdchg.chg.mcd.mot.com (Michael Bodine) (09/29/90)
John Mashey (mash@mips.COM) writes: | In article <1990Sep27.133938.7662@unx.sas.com> sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) writes: | >>dappel> Are there any other commercially available 88000 based | >>dappel> systems besides Data General Aviion? | >>Motorola Computer Systems makes the Delta 88 series of systems. | >Other 88K vendors include Sanyo/Icon, Phillips Information (second source | >for Motorola), Encore and Unisys. There are also several other second | >source vendors, but I can't think of there names now. | Has Phillips actually announced an 88K system product? Phillips is *NOT* a "second source" of either 88K-based Delta systems nor of the 88000 family of chips. They are an OEM customer of Motorola who (it was recently announced) buy 88K systems from Motorola Microcomputer Division and resell them in Europe under their own label. They do the same with 68K based systems and have done so for quite some time. There are no currently announced second sources of 88K chips of which i'm aware. -- [ Michael Bodine, michael@chg.mcd.mot.com, Dial: (708) 576-7840, FAX: x8875 ] [ Motorola MCD; Loc IL38; 1100 Woodfield; Suite 334; Schaumburg, Il 60173 ]
basell@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (david basell 2279455) (09/29/90)
What about Motorola's 8000 series and the new MPC?
rfg@NCD.COM (Ron Guilmette) (10/01/90)
In article <12812@encore.Encore.COM> jcallen@encore.Com (Jerry Callen) writes: > >There are also a number of vendors (Force comes to mind) manufacturing >VME boards carrying 88K processors. I believe that Tadpole falls into this category also. -- // Ron Guilmette - C++ Entomologist // Internet: rfg@ncd.com uucp: ...uunet!lupine!rfg // Motto: If it sticks, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
philip@cetia.fr (Philip Peake) (10/01/90)
In article <R2a4P2w163w@grafted.UUCP> dappel@grafted.UUCP (Dave Appel) writes: >Are there any other commercially available 88000 based >systems besides Data General Aviion? CETIA manufacture an 88k cpu board which can be used in any of the standard configuration 68k machines that they currently sell. 88open certification is in progress for these machines.
sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) (10/01/90)
In article <41775@mips.mips.COM> mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) writes: >In article <1990Sep27.133938.7662@unx.sas.com> sasrer@unx.sas.com (Rodney Radford) writes: >>Other 88K vendors include Sanyo/Icon, Phillips Information (second source >>for Motorola), Encore and Unisys. There are also several other second >>source vendors, but I can't think of there names now. > > >Has Phillips actually announced an 88K system product? > (also, could somebody point me at something that talks about Phillips > being a second soruce for 88Ks? Is that true?) The article is in Electronic News, Monday, Sept 24, 1990, and begins "Motorola has signed an OEM agreement with Philips Information Systems under which the Dutch company will resell Motorola's line of mid-range computers based on the 88000 RISC microprocessor. Philips Information will resell and private-label in Europe Mtorola's MultiPersonal Computer line, ...." Maybe there was some confusion about my "second source for 88Ks' - I meant for the 88K based computers, not the actuall 88000 chips.... -- Rodney Radford DG/UX AViiON developer SAS Institute, Inc. sasrer@unx.sas.com (919) 677-8000 x7703 Box 8000, Cary, NC 27512
tdonahue@prost.bbn.com (Tim Donahue) (10/02/90)
In article <12812@encore.Encore.COM>, jcallen@Encore (Jerry Callen) writes: >In article <TOM.90Sep26133613@hcx2.ssd.csd.harris.com> tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: > >> [list of 88K system vendors, including Data General, Motorola, Harris, >> Textronix and Opus] > >Our dear competitor failed to mention the Encore 91 Series of realtime >systems (announced, now in alpha test, volume shipments early next year) >carrying 2 or 4 88100s in a shared memory multiprocessor configuration. > As Larry Kaplan (lkaplan@bbn.com) mentioned, the BBN TC2000 shared-memory multiprocessor is based on the 88000. Systems may be configured with as many as 63 function cards, each including 1 88100, 2 or 3 88200 CMMUs, and 16 Mb of physical memory. Each function card also includes a full VMEbus interface for I/O. Systems with over 120 processors will be available in the near future. Since representatives of Encore and Harris have described their current and planned realtime systems in response to your question, I would like to mention that the TC2000 also has powerful realtime capabilities. The TC2000 may be configured to run TC2000 nX (compatible with UNIX 4.3bsd) on some CPUs and TC2000 pSOS+m (a real-time kernel using pSOS+m/88K) on others simultaneously. The system may be dynamically partitioned into clusters of CPUs in order to dedicate system resources to specific functions. nX processes and pSOS tasks on different CPUs in different clusters may communicate using both message-passing and shared-memory models. pSOS tasks may transparently access the nX file system. Persistent, named shared memory objects are supported on a system-wide basis. The user may program using TC2000 parallel FORTRAN, C, and Ada under both nX and pSOS. The TotalView graphical multiprocess/multiprocessor debugger provides a powerful debugging tool for use under nX and pSOS. The TC2000 also supports the X Window System and Sun's NFS. The TC2000 has been generally available for sale since July 1989. If you'd like more information, please send me a message or call us at ACI at (617) 873-6000. Cheers, Tim ------------------ Timothy P. Donahue Operating Systems Development Group BBN Advanced Computers, Inc. 10 Fawcett Street Cambridge, MA 02138 tdonahue@bbn.com --
tjb@tadtec.uucp (Tim Bissell) (10/02/90)
Ron Guilmette writes: ] In article <12812@encore.Encore.COM>jcallen@encore.Com (Jerry Callen) writes: ] > ] >There are also a number of vendors (Force comes to mind) manufacturing ] >VME boards carrying 88K processors. ] ] I believe that Tadpole falls into this category also. Indeed we do, although because we can supply a Un*x system based on Data General's DG/UX kernel for our boards, we may not fit the original poster's "other than Aviion" criterion ;-) If anyone wants the (informal) gory details they can write to/email me at the address below. To say any more would probably abuse the charter of this group. Tim. -- Tim Bissell Tadpole Technology | (tjb@tadtec.UUCP || ...!mcsun!ukc!tadtec!tjb) Cambridge Science Park | "Is life worth living? DoD#174 Cambridge ENGLAND | That depends on the liver" CBR 600
ndoduc@framentec.fr (Nhuan Doduc) (10/03/90)
Lately there is an article in Unix World (or Review ?) about Why the 88K has lost the Workstation market (...) Do you have any comment on this ? --nh Nhuan DODUC, Framentec-Cognitech, Paris, France, ndoduc@framentec.fr or ndoduc@cognitech.fr, Association Francaise des Utilisateurs d'Unix, France, doduc@afuu.fr
ahughes@dg-rtp.dg.com (Arch Hughes) (10/04/90)
In article <1533@ftc.framentec.fr>, ndoduc@framentec.fr (Nhuan Doduc) writes: |> Lately there is an article in Unix World (or Review ?) about Why the 88K |> has lost the Workstation market (...) |> |> Do you have any comment on this ? |> |> --nh |> Nhuan DODUC, |> Framentec-Cognitech, Paris, France, ndoduc@framentec.fr or ndoduc@cognitech.fr, |> Association Francaise des Utilisateurs d'Unix, France, doduc@afuu.fr The article was almost entirely non technical and was more correctly about why Motorolla lost the WS market (not the 88k). In sort, it says that M waited too long to get the product to market. M retorts that it waited longer to get a better product to market (saying, either directly or by inference that SPARK and MIPS traded of value for time to market). I think that only time will indicate whose right. Certainly SPARK is doing well, the i860, MIPS (even with DEC), and the 88k seem to be also-rans in a confusing market. It's sort of like the old story about the marketing of "Dove" soap. That market wasn't felt to be knowledgeable enough to appreciate the value of a ph neutral soap. Is the computer market smart enough to understand the trade offs in the MIPs wars, or are the looking for something more than technical prowess and MIPS/$ ratios when the mass market goes shopping?
mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) (10/05/90)
In article <1014@dg.dg.com> ahughes@dg-rtp.dg.com (Arch Hughes) writes: .... >I think that only time will indicate whose right. Certainly SPARK is >doing well, the i860, MIPS (even with DEC), and the 88k seem to be >also-rans in a confusing market. It's sort of like the old story about re: also-ran: since MIPS was mentioned, I have to comment (and disagree) Following is a (partial, but mostly good) list of who's got products in workstation market, by RISC architecture used as main chip: SPARC (not SPARK) Sun (97-98% of SPARC-based systems market in 1989) Solbourne High end, most of business is servers (I think?) Tatung/Mars/Solarix/Trigem/Twinhead/Datatech clones, unclear what's going on in terms of distribution, shipments, quite yet Toshiba (in Japan, not sold elsewhere, so far) misc others MIPS Evans & Sutherland (3D) DEC (2D & 3D) Mips itself (2D) NEC SGI (3D) Sony Stardent (3D) Sumitomo Electric misc others 88K Data General Everex/Opus Omron Tektronix i860 too early to tell, I think OKI's announced one. The i860s actually shipping in high-end w/s are graphics coprocessors ---- So, SUN ships a lot, especially at lower end of workstation market, and they're easy to count, because they're mostly from Sun. A bunch of MIPS-based workstations are out there, although not as many as Sun, because the strength is in the higher-performance and more expensive ones - the $VALUE is closer than the numbers, I think. Also, they're harder to count, and especially if you're in the U.S., people tend to count Sun's worldwide sales, while ignoring foreign vendors; they also tend to count ALL of Sun's sales, while not counting the multi-user servers of other people's, which in fact compete with the bigger Suns.... Also, when you read the pie-charts, sometimes they show: Sun, HP, DEC, (other), thus omitting SGI, for example, and of course, not getting to Japan... I haven't been able to figure out the revenues/units of 88K-based workstations actually sold, so I don't know where that is.... (opinion: consider the source carefully): SPARC is there because of Sun's low-end strength; MIPS is there because of high-end strength and use by multiple important vendors. 88K's existence in workstation market is basically tied to DG at low end, and Tektronix at high end. I really can't tell how they're doing, because we (MIPS) don't play directly in 3D workstations, and we very seldom bump into DG, possibly because of different channels, or something. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
jdarcy@encore.com (Floating Exception) (10/05/90)
A couple of other RISC-based machines that John Mashey forgot to mention:
Encore 91/93 - the numbers were not chosen to represent ship dates. :-)
These are 88K-based multis; the 91 will be available Real Soon Now (I'm
working on it) and has 2-4 CPUs, while the 93 will be available sometime
later with 4-20something CPUs.
Dolphin Orion - another 88K multi, using SCI.
Pyramid this, that and the other - how did we miss them?
Intergraph something-or-other - these guys have changed chips a couple
of times, so I'm not sure what they're using now.
Acorn - they use their own ARM series of RISC chips, but they're worth
a mention anyway
As far as market share, I think I can safely predict that the Encore 91/93
will take over the high-end market as soon as they become available. ;-)
--
Jeff d'Arcy, Generic Software Engineer - jdarcy@encore.com
Nothing was ever achieved by accepting realityjcallen@Encore.COM (Jerry Callen) (10/05/90)
In article <jdarcy.655082613@zelig> jdarcy@encore.com (Floating Exception) writes: >A couple of other RISC-based machines that John Mashey forgot to mention: > > Intergraph something-or-other - these guys have changed chips a couple > of times, so I'm not sure what they're using now. Aren't they still using the clipper chip set? I know they bought the chip out when Fairchild abandoned it. I'm not sure Clipper quite counts as RISC, but just what DOES that mean, anyway - no, don't answer that. :-) There are some interesting similarities between the Clipper set and the Motorola 88K. The Clipper consists of a CPU chip and two MMU chips, one each for instructions and data, with completely separate paths to the MMUs. The FPU is on the CPU chip. The bulk of the Clipper instructions are single cycle, but there are "macro instructions" which execute out of a ROM on the CPU chip, using the normal instruction set. It's an interesting chip set; I first heard about it in 1985, and I think it was ahead of its time. -- Jerry Callen jcallen@encore.com
heiby@mcdchg.chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby) (10/11/90)
mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) writes: |88K |Data General |Everex/Opus |Omron |Tektronix The Motorola Computer Group also sells VME Boards and systems based on the 88K series processors, from single cpu/dual cache with 8Meg of memory to quad cpu/oct cache with 256Meg of memory. -- Ron Heiby, heiby@chg.mcd.mot.com Moderator: comp.newprod "Mandatory Drug Testing? Just Say NO!!!"