[comp.sys.m88k] 88K machines and 3rd party vendors

despoix@imag.imag.fr (Frederic DESPOIX) (10/23/90)

	Hi,

	My friends and I would like to have some usefull hints about third
	party vendors for DG AViiON (4000).
	SCSI bus is supposed to be a standard but the number of articles in
	comp.periphs.scsi tells the contrary !!!
	DG's disks and I imagine, all major company add-ons (SUN, ...) are
	expensive.
	Do you know of hard disk, magneto-optical disk and exabyte that have
	been successfully plugged to an AViiON ?
	What about software problems ?
	Do you have the description (type, constructor, ...) of DG 1Gb disk 
	so that I find a similar one ? 

	Thanks in advance,
	fred.

___________________________________________________________________________
 DESPOIX Frederic,                              despoix@imag.fr
 LGI-DU, B.P. 53x                               despoix@imag
 38041 GRENOBLE cedex, FRANCE                   uunet.uu.net!imag!despoix
 Tel : (33)76.51.44.81                      /------------------------------
 Fax : (33)76.44.66.75                      | NB : Usual disclaimer applies

newton@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Newton) (10/26/90)

In <14494@imag.imag.fr> despoix@imag.imag.fr (Frederic DESPOIX) writes:
>	My friends and I would like to have some usefull hints about third
>	party vendors for DG AViiON (4000).
>	SCSI bus is supposed to be a standard but the number of articles in
>	comp.periphs.scsi tells the contrary !!!

Just one comment -- at least as of 4.20 (havent tried 4.30) stay 
far far away from Newburry drives.  Maybe the 4000's have a better
SCSI than the 300's, but we _never_ got it to work.

On the other hand, DG drastically improved the SCSI implementation
in 4.30, so it may work now.....


- mike

--
newton@csvax.cs.caltech.edu   Beach Bums Anonymous, Pasadena President
Caltech 256-80		      (Hilo -- it's not just another rainy day!)
Pasadena CA 91125	      Life's a beach.  Then you graduate.

hardin@dg-rtp.dg.com (Paul Hardin) (10/29/90)

In article <newton.656917258@ggumby>, newton@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike
Newton) writes:
|> In <14494@imag.imag.fr> despoix@imag.imag.fr (Frederic DESPOIX)
writes:
|> >	My friends and I would like to have some usefull hints about third
|> >	party vendors for DG AViiON (4000).
|> >	SCSI bus is supposed to be a standard but the number of articles
in
|> >	comp.periphs.scsi tells the contrary !!!
|> 
|> Just one comment -- at least as of 4.20 (havent tried 4.30) stay 
|> far far away from Newburry drives.  Maybe the 4000's have a better
|> SCSI than the 300's, but we _never_ got it to work.

	The only problem I've heard of, relating to Newburry drives, 
	was a bootstrap problem where the drive took much longer to 
	become ready after a SCSI reset than expected, and the 
	bootstrap gave up.  Since this problem only affected the bootstrap, 
	you should have been able to use the drive for additional storage,
	or whatever, but just not boot from it.

	This problem has since been fixed, and I believe was released
	with 4.21.  If you're up to rev, give it a try.

	The SCSI implementation for the AV 4000 is, for all practical
	purposes, the same as that on the AV 300.  The implication that
	the AV 300 is somehow flawed is simply not true.  We've made a
	very strong attempt to make sure that as many off-the-shelf 
	SCSI disks would work as possible.  
	
	However, as anyone who's worked closely with several different 
	SCSI devices will tell you, there's probably a ill-behaved device 
	out there just waiting to strike :-).

	Paul



--
	Speaking purely for myself...

.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-.
|Paul Hardin  				hardin@dg-rtp.dg.com		|
|Data General Corp., RTP NC		{world}!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!hardin	|
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-'

newton@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Newton) (10/30/90)

In <1990O....j51.24348@dg-rtp.dg.com> hardin@dg-rtp.dg.com (Paul Hardin) writes:
>In article <newt....@ggumby>, newton@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu (MikeNewton) writes:
>|> In <144....imag.fr> despoix@imag.imag.fr (Frederic DESPOIX)writes:
>|> >   My friends and I would like to have some usefull hints about third
>|> >   party vendors for DG AViiON (4000).
>|>
>|> Just one comment -- at least as of 4.20 (havent tried 4.30) stay
>|> far far away from Newburry drives.  Maybe the 4000's have a better
>|> SCSI than the 300's, but we _never_ got it to work.

>       The only problem I've heard of, relating to Newburry drives,
>       was a bootstrap problem where the drive took much longer to
>       become ready after a SCSI reset than expected, and the
>       bootstrap gave up.  Since this problem only affected the bootstrap,
>       you should have been able to use the drive for additional storage,
>       or whatever, but just not boot from it.

>       This problem has since been fixed, and I believe was released
>       with 4.21.  If you're up to rev, give it a try.

I'm going to send a much longer reply to Paul by e-mail, but the essence
is that that problems were much more severe than this.  I would like to
repeat, however, that
        [1] i have not tested it under 4.30 (i believe i tested 4.21)
        [2] it only showed up on Newbury drives. (but that is what we had
                and it took months to get the system running).

Note that the older Newbury drives have a known select problem.  This
was made worse by the earlier DG scsi driver, but even with newer Newburry
disks we never got any to work well (panics in 1-15 minutes).

- mike

--
newton@csvax.cs.caltech.edu   Beach Bums Anonymous, Pasadena President
Caltech 256-80		      (Hilo -- it's not just another rainy day!)
Pasadena CA 91125	      Life's a beach.  Then you graduate.