dmeyer@88opensi.UUCP (Derek Meyer) (11/14/90)
Let me try and clarify Mashey's confusion with a few facts.
ABOUT 88OPEN.....
Mashey's comments seem to indicate a lack of understanding about 88open.
That's not surprising, but I certainly wouldn't want his misunderstanding
propagated in 88k-land.
Although I probably can't convince John to switch to an 88k-based product, maybe
I can clarify our purpose - and clear up the confusion.
88open is about solutions. Our goal is to ensure compatible solutions, from
multiple vendors, for users of 88000-based systems. "Solutions," in this case
mean a combination of systems and application software available for customers
to purchase, based on their needs.
Our use of standards allows solutions to come from multiple vendors. Adoptors
of the MC88000 can choose to develop "architecturally dis-similiar" systems
(i.e. different buses, single/multi-processors, different OS's, etc.)
which are compatible to a set of standards. Compatibility to our standards
allows systems manufacturers to offer their users solutions based
on a broad variety of application software - without porting each package
uniquely to each platform.
Each of 88open's communication tools, including the Sourcebook, is designed to
address this goal.
OUR CATALOGUE VS. THE REST
Since Mashey used the MIPS catalogue as a comparison against 88open's, the
reverse is only fair. As near as I can tell, the RISCware catalogue serves
one of two purposes:
a) it represents a list of software for computers from MIPS Inc.
b) it represents software available for all computers using MIPS chips.
I find the second option quite unlikely, as there are no standards for
compatibility or testing for binary compatible products based on the MIPS chip.
Furthermore, with byte reversal, as DEC uses, binary compatibility is inhibited
further. I must assume, therefore, that RISCware refers only to software for
computers manufactured and marketed by MIPS Inc..
Other catalogues, like Sun's "SPARCware" are like MIPS - they are unique to a
specific manufacturer. There's no guarantee that the software listed runs or is
available, on clones or other systems based on the same chip.
88open members also have their own catalogues - like the MIPS' RISCware and Sun
SPARCware. For example, Data General has their own catalogue which lists
software for their AViiON systems. (As I recall, Data General's catalogue has
at least as many applications as the MIPS catalogue.)
The 88open Sourcebook is entirely different. The Sourcebook is the ONLY
catalogue of it's kind. This catalogue is designed to list (a) standards-
compatible hardware systems and (b) application software for ALL these systems.
Each software product listed has a corresponding "Certification Agreement" - a
written aggreement with 88open to: (a) develop a version of their product which
complies to the standards, (b) certify that product as compliant, and
(c) SELL OR LICENSE THE CERTIFIED PRODUCT ON EVERY SYSTEM CERTIFIED BY 88OPEN.
Simply stated, the 88open Sourcebook provides end users with a reference of
applications which are compatible on ALL 88k-based systems adhering to the
standards. Upon certification, each application may be purchased for ANY
certified system. This assurance is something no other catalogue provides.
We rigorously test all products for compatibility and indicate the status of
these products in the Sourcebook.
88000-BASED HARDWARE:
There are indeed over 50 manufacturers building 88k-based products today.
These products range from telecom devices and realtime embedded systems, to
workstations, servers and massively parallel processors.
The 88open Sourcebook only lists announced products which are (a) certified or
(b) obtaining certification of compatibility to the 88open standards. The
current Sourcebook (3rd edition) lists 67 different 88k-based products.
61 of these have been tested by 88open and granted "certification." The
remainder are "in progress" of obtaining certification. The Sourcebook will be
updated to reflect new certifications and additional products planned for
certification. Between printings, users may contact 88open for updated
information.
Vendors which use the 88000 but have not **announced** plans of complying to the
88open standards are not listed. Doing so, would be inconsistent with the
intent of the Sourcebook. Again, the purpose of the Sourcebook is to provide
users with a reference of compatible systems and applications from multiple
vendors. The only products listed, hardware or software, are those committed
to delivering products certified as compatible.
Category # of vendors # of products
-------- ------------ -------------
88k-based products 50+ *
Committed to 88open
compatibility 11 67**
88open certified 8 61
(*This number can be provided by Motorola, but is obviously >67.)
(**These numbers do NOT include unannounced products/vendors.)
88OPEN SOFTWARE:
There are indeed over 1500 applications running on 88k-based systems today.
This includes a variety of platform-specific products and "layered"
applications - those running on top of other software packages.
88open provides assistance to ISVs who wish to construct a version of their
product which (a) complies to the standards and (b) is available to users of
any certified platform.
The 88open Consortium is working to ensure that these, and other, applications
are available on ALL 88open certified systems - not just some. This provides
88000 users with the widest selection of solutions, independent of system
supplier.
Today, the Consortium is working with appx. 200 software companies to certify
their products as compatible with the standards. (Not all these are listed in
the 3rd edition - it went to print 60 days ago and the list continues to grow!)
Each of these vendors intends to develop single versions of their products which
support multiple manufacturers' 88000-based systems.
These ~200 companies represent ~400 products **plus applications which run
layered on top of these.** [An example of layered applications are products
written in Unify's Accell 4GL. Accell has been certified. Any application
written exclusively in Accell need not undergo 88open certification to be
assured to execute on a certified system. There are a number of other examples.]
88open does NOT list or count layered applications in the Sourcebook. They are
listed seperately in application-specific catalogues. [Using the Unify/Accell
example again, they publish their own catalog listing 100's of applications
running on Accell.] There's enough "padding" of numbers in this industry; we
don't duplicate the listing - or the count. As applications are certified,
and run on ALL certified systems, layered applications follow automatically.
If we were to list layered applications in our Sourcebook, it would already
look like the San Jose yellow pages. Instead, we refer users to the application
specific catalogues.
As we work with ISVs, we place their products into three categories:
o certified - tested by 88open and shipping today **in shrinkwrapped fashion
on ALL certified systems.**
o in progress - on the "short list" of certification. We have a schedule for
certification and are working toward a specific date. Users
may contact 88open or the vendor for availability dates.
o planned compliant - the ISV is committed, in writing, to developing and
delivering a certified version of their product. We
are working with the ISV to establish a formal
certification schedule.
As I mentioned earlier, many of these products already run on some 88k-based
systems. We're working with the ISV to have them run on ALL certified systems.
Over the next few months, the number of compatible applications will grow
dramatically. Today, we have appx. 70 applications (the number changes daily)
which are certified **and several hundred which are layered on these.** Each
of the certified applications is assured to run, and is available for purchase
on ALL certified systems.
The number of applications compatible through use of the 88open standards
increases both by those certified and by those layered on top of certified
software.
SUMMARY:
88open provides the only formal mechanism to guarantee availability of
applications, and hence solutions, to adoptors of a chip. Any system vendor
can develop a product based on the 88000 and be guaranteed to have software
available for their product - independent of their own ISV activities - through
88open. Our standards, testing, and certification program is the most complete
in the indusrty. Finally, we are the only organization of our kind -
providing ISVs, system vendors, and end users an assurance of compatibility
AND availability.
Standard disclaimer: the opinions are mine, but may be shared by others...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Meyer | Director of Marketing | 88open Consortium Ltd.
uunet!88opensi!dmeyer | (408) 436-6600 | 100 Homeland Court
dmeyer@88open.org | | Suite 800
| | San Jose, CA. 95112
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) (11/16/90)
In article <577@88opensi.UUCP> dmeyer@88opensi.UUCP (Derek Meyer) writes: > >Let me try and clarify Mashey's confusion with a few facts. Now, this is a good, informative, and reasoned reponse. Thanx! >ABOUT 88OPEN..... >Mashey's comments seem to indicate a lack of understanding about 88open. >That's not surprising, but I certainly wouldn't want his misunderstanding >propagated in 88k-land. Well, actually, more of the confusion is putting the numbers together from different organizations. I think I do understand what 88Open does, and I have its catalogs, and I get the 88Open Newsletter.... >OUR CATALOGUE VS. THE REST >Since Mashey used the MIPS catalogue as a comparison against 88open's, the >reverse is only fair. As near as I can tell, the RISCware catalogue serves >one of two purposes: > a) it represents a list of software for computers from MIPS Inc. > b) it represents software available for all computers using MIPS chips. >I find the second option quite unlikely, as there are no standards for >compatibility or testing for binary compatible products based on the MIPS chip. >Furthermore, with byte reversal, as DEC uses, binary compatibility is inhibited >further. I must assume, therefore, that RISCware refers only to software for >computers manufactured and marketed by MIPS Inc.. Actually, not quite: fits: Pyramid, CDC, Prime, E&S, among others. Does not include DEC, correct. >88open members also have their own catalogues - like the MIPS' RISCware and Sun >SPARCware. For example, Data General has their own catalogue which lists >software for their AViiON systems. (As I recall, Data General's catalogue has >at least as many applications as the MIPS catalogue.) Perhaps someone would post something about that, or, I offer once again, if somebody from DG would send a catalog, we'll be glad to trade (after I get back from month traveling around world :-) >88OPEN SOFTWARE: > >There are indeed over 1500 applications running on 88k-based systems today. >This includes a variety of platform-specific products and "layered" >applications - those running on top of other software packages. I think this is probably where the confusion comes from, as there are, clearly: a) Platform-specific products. For example, I looked at the Summer 1990 Catalyst; I counted 1917 entries labeled as available on SPARC; 110 of them were not software, or really had no SPARC-specificity at all (i.e., mice, VME-bus analyzers, consultants, training courses, Auspex file servers, et, i.e., stuff you could hook with a MIPS or DG, and maybe change a config file, but not much else, at most). 345 were hardware-specific chunks of software, i.e. typically VME-bus devices; 3 were S-bus specific), leaving 1454 that one would expect to run across different configurations. (Note that this is NOT 2000, the usual number cited :-) b) Layered products. It turns out that most vendors don't count these in their counts, even though most of us have them; note that that 1500 number didn't say anything one way or another, which is why I asked.... -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086