dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) (01/18/90)
In article <1558@skye.ed.ac.uk>, ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes: > In article <2723@paperboy.OSF.ORG> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes: > > > Maaahsterpiece(*) Theatere is made possible by a grant from Mobil > > Corporation, which invites you to join with them in supporting... > > ^ ^^^^ > > > >Well? Are they it, or is it them? > > It is correct British English except for the `with', which should have > been omitted: `join them'. > > In British English, corporations, governments etc. usually take a > plural verb: the government act, the company make a profit, etc. ^^^^^^ ^^^^ > Strictly, this is incorrect, and speakers of American English usually > get it right: the Governmernt acts, the company makes a profit, et sim. Precisely my point. The above has a *singular* verb, but a plural pronoun. I think it's just Mobil being chummy and saying that we're all really a bunch of perfectly lovable, real, human beans, and not a faceless corporation like, say E***n. Also, in alt.peeves, mmeyer@m2.csc.ti.com (Mark Meyer) writes: >> Why can't Mobil get a simple piece >>of grammar right (a pronoun should agree with their antecedent)? > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ > > Sorry, I just couldn't resist pointing this out. Or is this >one of those unmarked pieces of sarcasm that have been turning up in >this group? Mea culpa. My reference is a grammar checklist that I remember from somewhere, in which the errors is illustrated within the rules: "Never use a preposition to end a sentence with", that sort of thing. (*)In case the British readers haven't heard, and haven't been listening to "Letter from America", Masterpiece Theatre (is it er or re?) is a weekly series on Posh Television, which presents the best of recent British drama (initially BBC, but now it seems mainly Granada or Thames). It's framed by a few brief words from Alistair Cooke. Since many good programs are now produced by British commercial TV (which many Americans doesn't know exists) and have to fill an hour on American non-commercial TV (which many British don't know exists) his brief words are sometimes not so brief. He once related that, when this phenomenon first occurred, with "Upstairs Downstairs", many people thought he was an integral part of the show. Another obscure anecdote from: -- David Brooks dbrooks@osf.org Open Software Foundation uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (01/19/90)
In article <2793@paperboy.OSF.ORG> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes: > Mea culpa. My reference is a grammar checklist that I remember from > somewhere, in which the errors is illustrated within the rules: "Never > use a preposition to end a sentence with", that sort of thing. "This is something up with which I will not put." -- attributed to Winston Churchill It's a rather dumb rule which really doesn't exist as a rule of grammar in the strictest sense, at least according to my _Dictionary_ _of_Misinformation_. It is more a style rule than a grammar rule and sometimes the convolutions required to follow it leave a sentence sounding very unnatural. Peeve: people that chastise me for ending a sentence with a preposition in conversational speech.
mjh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Matthew J. Henken) (01/20/90)
In article <VXSTJ_@rpi.edu> tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) writes: >In article <2793@paperboy.OSF.ORG> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes: >> Mea culpa. My reference is a grammar checklist that I remember from >> somewhere, in which the errors is illustrated within the rules: "Never >> use a preposition to end a sentence with", that sort of thing. > >"This is something up with which I will not put." > -- attributed to Winston Churchill > >It's a rather dumb rule which really doesn't exist as a rule of >grammar in the strictest sense, at least according to my _Dictionary_ >_of_Misinformation_. It is more a style rule than a grammar rule and >sometimes the convolutions required to follow it leave a sentence >sounding very unnatural. Let me support your position with a quote from Webster's Dictionary of English Usage copyright 1989: "As is not the case with some of the other long-lived topics examined in this book, recent commentators--at least since Fowler 1926--are unanimous in their rejection of the notion that ending a sentence with a preposition is an error or an offense agaist propriety. Fowler terms the idea a 'cherished superstition.'" Now, perhaps this provides some ammunition to ward of attackers with... narrowly avoiding ending a sentence with a preposition, which I did not :-). By the way, the quote attributed is more accurately reported as: "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." according to Bartlett's Familiar Quotations Ob.Peeve: Administrators: There are more here at Dartmouth than there are professors, and they have more authority and influence on the students. Not my idea of a healthy educational institution. I can't even imagine the bull that students at larger schools have to put up with. (up with which they have to put?) -- "Basic error: to place the goal in the herd and not in single individuals! The herd is a means, no more! But now one is attempting to understand the herd as an individual and to ascribe to it a higher rank than to the individual--profound misunderstanding!!!" --Friedrich Nietzsche Matthew Henken, Dartmouth College