neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET (02/12/90)
Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? Regards Martin Neath <neath@dsg.ti.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: As always, the opinions expressed above are strictly my own and do not reflect those of my employer, Texas Instruments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (Richard Oppenheimer) (02/14/90)
In article <NEATH.90Feb12153058@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET> neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET writes: >Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? C This seems a little awkward. Kind of like watching a television show on a TV on a TV but worse. Both X Server and PM (albiet very different) are windowing servers of a sort. The differences are greater. X is truely a server, for which front ends must be made. PM is both server and interface combined. The function and server calls for each system are very different from each other. The only thing I could see happening is that a toolkit could be written (maybe) for X that would simulate PM calls and provide the same interface. For PM, I suppose you might be able to have somekind of porting tool, but I don't think you would be able to have X or X apps run under PM. Also it would defeat the purpose of X since your apps would assume the PM interface and you would lose the ability to create your own front end. Of course if Motif is your front end, then it would be pretty close. I could be wrong here, but this is my understanding of these two systems at least in a basic sense. If anyone wishes to correct me or get more complex, be my guest. Richard Oppenheimer oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu
lbruck@eng.umd.edu (Lewis Bruck) (02/14/90)
In article <6119@umd5.umd.edu> oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (Richard Oppenheimer) writes: >In article <NEATH.90Feb12153058@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET> neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET writes: >>Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? >C >This seems a little awkward. Kind of like watching a television show on >a TV on a TV but worse. Both X Server and PM (albiet very different) are >windowing servers of a sort. The differences are greater. X is truely a >server, for which front ends must be made. PM is both server and interface I am neither an X or PM expert, but it should be possible to have the X server code running within a PM window. It would be able to translate the low level X packets into Gpi... calls and then interpret the mouse and keyboard inputs into X packets. The actual screen i/o for X is localized (for just this kind of portability). In terms of how complex such an port would be, it would be dependent on how UNIX specific the actual code is, since OS/2 provides all of the basic facilities needed, albeit in somewhat different flavors. It would be interesting to compile the X11R4 system, if I only had the spare disk space... >Richard Oppenheimer oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu Lewis Bruck lbruck@eng.umd.edu
gilmore@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Scott Gilmore) (02/14/90)
In article <6119@umd5.umd.edu> oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (Richard Oppenheimer) writes: >In article <NEATH.90Feb12153058@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET> neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET writes: >>Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? >C >This seems a little awkward. Kind of like watching a television show on >a TV on a TV but worse. Both X Server and PM (albiet very different) are >windowing servers of a sort. The differences are greater. X is truely a >server, for which front ends must be made. PM is both server and interface >combined. The function and server calls for each system are very different >from each other. The only thing I could see happening is that a toolkit >could be written (maybe) for X that would simulate PM calls and >provide the same interface. For PM, I suppose you might be able >to have somekind of porting tool, but I don't think you would be able >to have X or X apps run under PM. >Richard Oppenheimer oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu There is a product called XVision that does exactly this under Microsoft Windows. According to the press announcement in comp.newprod of several months ago, X applications can run in standard MS-Windows windows, one application per window. Or, the system can be configured so that one MS-Window is a virtual X workstation in which multiple X-windows may reside. The announcement was nearly 200 lines long, so I'd rather not repost it here. In leiu of that, the vendor's name and address are VisionWare, PO Box 3991, Minneapolis, MN 55405, USA Tel +1-612-377-3627 VisionWare Limited, The Leeds Business Park, Morley, Leeds LS27 0JG, UK Tel +44-532-522020. Fax +44-532-526614. Telex 556283. Email: vware@vison.uucp I think it's almost inevitable that they will release a PM version of this product. I've never used it, but it sounds impressive. --- Scott Gilmore gilmore@vax1.acs.udel.edu Mechanical Engineering and Center for Composite Materials, U. of Delaware
palowoda@fiver.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) (02/14/90)
From article <6119@umd5.umd.edu>, by oppenhei@umd5.umd.edu (Richard Oppenheimer): > In article <NEATH.90Feb12153058@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET> neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET writes: >>Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? > C [some stuff deleted] > server, for which front ends must be made. PM is both server and interface > combined. The function and server calls for each system are very different > from each other. Hmm, this is interesting. Can OS/2 or PM act as a client also? I was wondering if a OS/2 application can be run over a network similar to X. Or does PM have some sort of extension that one can build an external user interface? ---Bob -- Bob Palowoda pacbell!indetech!palowoda *Home of Fiver BBS* login: bbs Home {sun|daisy}!ys2!fiver!palowoda (415)-623-8809 1200/2400 Work {sun|pyramid|decwrl}!megatest!palowoda (415)-623-8806 2400/9600/19200 TB Voice: (415)-623-7495 Public access UNIX XBBS
ittai@shemesh.GBA.NYU.EDU (Ittai Hershman) (02/14/90)
I seem to remember seeing a "research prototype" of an X11 server for OS/2 being shown on the Interop '89 show floor by IBM. It was by no means being described as a product, or even a future-product. -Ittai
mlegge@datlog.co.uk ( Martyn Legge ) (02/15/90)
neath@solar-1.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET writes: >Has anyone heard of an X server that will run under PM for OS/2? >Regards >Martin Neath <neath@dsg.ti.com> I have seen an announcement by IXI of Cambridge that they are working for Visionware on an X server for os/2. Visionware are in Leeds. The article ( in X.tr ) says its due to be released "early next (ie this) year". Hope this helps Martyn Legge
golding@saturn.ucsc.edu (Richard A. Golding) (02/19/90)
In article <993@fiver.UUCP>, palowoda@fiver.UUCP (Bob Palowoda) writes: > Hmm, this is interesting. Can OS/2 or PM act as a client also? I was > wondering if a OS/2 application can be run over a network similar to > X. Or does PM have some sort of extension that one can build an external > user interface? Having worked both on the internals of PM and on X servers, I think I can comment. OS/2 generally isn't intended as a network operating system, but rather as a single-user operating system which can, with difficulty, access some remote services. This is a near-inversion of the X/Athena model of computing, where the local workstation is used mostly just for display and perhaps some light computation or file storage, and remote systems are used for heavy-duty computation. Obviously an X server can be built to run under PM. The simplest way (and the way most layered X products seem to start out) is to simply put an X server in a PM window. PM provides most of the necessary input events, and the X server can paint whatever bits it needs to. However, you can't just compile the MIT X11Rx sample server and tweak it a bit to get such a server. The MIT server assumes (among other things) large linear address spaces, sockets (though X11R4 includes streams support, I believe), and Unix-style signals. A more sophisticated X server, where the X clients' windows are put in separate PM windows, is virtually out of the question. PM doesn't support the richness of window types (how do you treat the TRANSIENT_FOR hint?) that X does, and it doesn't have the mechanics to support ICCCM-compliant applications (e.g. PM isn't very flexible in its focus model.) PM would have to serve as the X window manager, which leads to interesting questions about mapping/unmapping windows and reparenting support, as well as questions as to how well the X selections model can work with the PM clipboard (for they are very different.) (For non-X types: an X window manager is different from the window system. The window system implements windows. The window manager handles borders and things like resizing windows. The toolkit provides widgets and application-building tools. The session manager... and so on.) I'd also guess that it will be quite a while before PM can support any of the X extensions -- SHAPES certainly seems out of the question at present, and OS/2 doesn't have memory models (in version 1.x) that can support PEX or VEX. (This is particularly sad since so many DOS machines get sold specifically because they will support cheap video hardware.) In short, I think that PM and X are two quite different beasts. It shouldn't be too hard to support PM under X, since PM provides so many fewer services; given that several different interfaces to X already exist (Xlib, Xt (using Athena, Motif, or ATT Open Look), CLX, Xview, InterViews, Andrew) I don't think there are any doubts that PM would work. (Note that Motif is *not* PM under X; Motif is a widget set which contains, among other things, widgets similar in function to the the PM controls. It is, however, based on Xt.) The reverse, however, seems more problematic. -richard ----------- Richard A. Golding, Crucible (work) and UC Santa Cruz CIS Board (grad student) Internet: golding@cis.ucsc.edu Work: {uunet|ucscc}!cruc!golding Post: Baskin Centre for CE & IS, Appl. Sci. Bldg., UC, Santa Cruz CA 95064 or: 519 California St., Santa Cruz, CA 95060 or: Crucible, 1717 Seabright #1, Santa Cruz CA 95062