changwoo@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Chang P. Woo) (12/05/89)
Thanks for all people who have send me info concerning my request about SE
accelerators. Since several people have asked me to mail a summary, I've
decided to post it.
My conclusion: If you can purchase Mac through University Consortium
program, you should sell the SE and buy a 030 machine to provide the maximum
compatibility with the future system software. If you are not, consider
an accelerator.
Chang
--- Forwarded Message from harvard!ames!apple!netcom!wasilko (Jeff Wasilko) ---
TSI accelorators claim that they work with Virtual and should work
with Apple's VM in system 7.0. I'm considering a TSI accelorator for my Plus.
Here's some info I got in the mail:
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 89 09:29:50 EDT
From: Mark Interrante <claris!uflorida!serc!mfi>
Message-Id: <8910161329.AA04875@serc.cis.ufl.edu>
To: uflorida!ames!apple!netcom!wasilko
Subject: Re: TSI Acelerators
Status: RO
Hi, the 020 doent provide virtual memory. There is no slot for the VM chip.
You can buy an 68030 for about the same price as the 020+851 pair.
Mark.
-----
**** Accelerators for Macintoshes ****
I am a reseller of TSI Macintosh accelerators. TSI has been making
accelerators for a number of years and they have been reviewed in
Macuser and Macworld. There are references in this message. These
are 68020 or 68030 (68882 optional) boards that work on 512e->SE
machines. (if you have a 128k or a 512, you can use the accelerator
IF you go to an APPLE dealer and get the ~325$ rom/drive upgrade. You
dont have to get any extra ram). They are available in speeds from
16mhz through 25mhz. These are all the same board, the CPU chips are
simply socketed and there is a jumper to change chips. These are easy
to install on 512e and plus and they are VERY easy to install on a SE.
The board has a high speed SCSI that speeds up the 512e and Plus to
Mac II transfer speeds (see review in August 1988 Macworld). An
adapter is available to connect the E-machine and Megagraphics large
screen monitors. The warranty is 12 months.
It works with all the software that I have seen that is compatable
with the mac II, including *VIRTUAL* which gives you up to 14mb of
virtual memory. You can put up to 4mb ram on the board itself. The
accelerator can use SIMMS from 60ns to 150ns, wait states are simply
added.
I accept personal checks and Ship as soon as the check clears. In
addition I accept POs. I will ship the board UPS BLUE. *** The shipping
and insurance charge is $25. ***
TSI has boards at Apple and they claim that they will be 100%
compatable with version 7.0.
The benchmarks that were run by Macuser in the Feb. 1989 issue show
that the 20mhz accelerator is about 40-100% faster that a Mac II using
applications like Excel, Word, and Hypercard. Here is a synopsis of the
benchmarks that MacUser ran.
Test Plus/1mb SE/1mb MacIIX/4mb 20mhz68030/68882/4mb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word/scroll .87 1.0 1.79 3.09
EXECL .83 1.0 3.47 4.70
Whetstone 1.0 1.0 8.29 28.17
Dhrystone .83 1.0 3.84 4.82
MacDraw .92 1.0 2.60 4.19
Hypercard/sort .84 1.0 8.12 10.63
Filemaker/Find .96 1.0 3.87 4.65
(please note these prices are subject to change. Hopefully downward,
in keeping with CPU chip prices)
Price list for the TSI Macintosh Accelarator Cards
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gemini 68020 processor option:
List Price My Price
16Mhz 995 845
16Mhz+68881 1295 1100
25Mhz 1595 1355
25Mhz+68881 2295 1950
Gemini 68030 processor option:
List Price My Price
16Mhz 1395 1185
16Mhz+68882 1795 1525
20Mhz 1595 1355
20Mhz+68882 2295 1950
25Mhz 1995 1695
25Mhz+68882 2795 2375
-----
**** Add $150 to price for any Mac other than the SE. ****
(this is for an adapter connection)
----
The following chips are available to upgrade the boards. These are
user installable also.
25Mhz 68020 800 680
16Mhz 68030 600 510
20Mhz 68030 800 680
25Mhz 68030 900 765
16Mhz 68881 300 255
25Mhz 68881 700 600
16Mhz 68882 500 425
20Mhz 68882 700 600
25Mhz 68882 800 680
----
Video Options
----
Interface adapter for Megascreen SE 200 175
Interface adapter for Megascreen Plus 75 75
Interface adapter for E-machine SE 200 175
Interface adapter for E-machine Plus 200 175
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
Information about Macintosh II and IIX accelerators
These are 33Mhz 68030 boards that actually fit into the CPU chip slot of a
Mac. In addition, they include a 64k Cache to improve memory acces times.
A 68882 co processor is available as an add on. If a 68882 is not bought
the accelerator will use the onboard 16Mhz 68881. It is fully
compatable with A/UX and VIRTUAL and verson 7.0. The original 16Mhz
processor is placed onto the accelerator board for should you determine
the need to revert to non-accelerated mode. Software comes bundled
VIRTUAL, SANE speedup, and PROC.INIT (whichs patches EXCEL to use the
68882 directly). The board comes with a 12 month warranty.
Test MacII/4mb MacIIX/4mb Accelerator/4mb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word/scroll 1.0 1.07 1.68
EXCEL 1.0 1.17 2.25
Whetstone 1.0 1.16 6.85
Dhrystone 1.0 1.27 2.42
MacDraw 1.0 1.19 2.08
Hypercard/sort 1.0 1.19 1.87
Filemaker/Find 1.0 1.42 2.19
Comparison with Daystar
TSI Daystar
---------------------------------------------------------------
Rated as fastest yes* no
able to use original processor yes no
68030 burst mode yes no
Cache 64k 32k
33mhz yes yes
able to use full height drives yes no
Bundled with virtual yes no
See macuser June 1989 issue. The TSI board is manufactured by the same
people as the SiCLONE and the results ar indentical.
Price: List My Price
--------------------------------------------------------
33Mhz 68030 board 4200 3500
33Mhz 68030 board/68882 5200 4400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Interrante E-mail: mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu
Research Assistant US-mail: 1810 NW 23rd. Blvd. #264
CIS Department, U. Florida Gainesville, Fl. 32605
PH# (904) 371-0082
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Forwarded Message from Michael J. Howell <mjh@riacs.edu> ---
Chang,
There is a company called: Total Systems
99 W. 10th Ave, Suite 333
Eugene, Oregon 97401
(800) 874-2288
(503) 345-7395
FAX (503) 343-6293
They have running an ad in MacWeek, promoting their Gemini 020/030
accelerator cards. Features are:
16, 20, 0r 25Mhz 68020 OR 68030
Optional 68881 or 68882 Floating Point Accelerator
Optional 1 or 4 Mbyte 0 wait RAM (four SIMM sockets)
Built in SCSI and video expansion
Bundled software
I have not called them, to avoid being tempted to spend money. But,
you might call them and check out their prices. Even the 68020 board has a
PMMU socket, which when filled with the PMMU, will allow the SE to run
(Real Soon Now) System 7 software.
Drop me a line if you do get something from them or get their prices.
Good luck,
Michael
******************************************************************************
Michael J. Howell mjh@riacs.edu
RIACS riacs!mjh
Mailstop 230-5
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035
--- Forwarded Message from g556871349ea@deneb.ucdavis.edu ---
Some of my observations:
Radius 16 Best price/performance ratio. $725 w 68881
Dove Cheapest. Not paying for 32K Static RAM Cache.
$599 with 68881
Radius 25 Speediest. $1299 with 68882.
One other thing to consider is do you need further expansion options. With the
Radius board, you may be limited to the Radius screens. With the Dove, the
slot is the same but is there space for another board? Don't really know. So
far, I've purchased 2 Radius 16s for work.
--
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
Colin Ong "I think we should focus on
Dept. of Land, Air & Water Resources Corporation profits..."
126 Veihmeyer Hall ..."Break out the electron
University of California microscope."
Davis, CA 95616 DUFFY
cgong@ucdavis.bitnet
g556871349ea@deneb.ucdavis.edu
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
--- Forwarded Message from Robert Bauer <RBAUER@oregon.uoregon.edu> ---
X-VMS-News: oregon comp.sys.mac.hardware:439
> From: changwoo@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Chang P. Woo)
> Subject:Cheap Accelerator for SE
> Date: 24 Nov 89 22:23:04 GMT
> Message-ID:<17248@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU>
> I am thinking of upgrading my SE to a faster machine and like to know
> what options are.
>
> 1. I could sell my SE and buy a SE/30. (Surely, I would rather have IIci
> instead, but price is the main factor for me.) I can buy a SE/30 with
> internal 40 MB hard drive from the college for about $3000, and I am now
> *legally* allowed to sell my SE 20 (which is officially two years old, but
> the all parts except the hard drive is hardly five months old. It is a
> long story).
>
> 2. I could attach an accelerator to my SE.
>
> Well, if I choose to get an acclerator, what are my choices? I am
> looking for following features from an accelerator.
>
> a. 020 with PMMU socket or 030. If I am spending money for upgrading my
> machine, I want it to compatible with future Macintoshes. Oh, 16 mhz is
> good enough. I am not in market for faster CPU than 16 mhz.
>
> b. socket for FPU. I am not sure whether I would buy FPU right away, but
> I would like to keep it an option for future.
>
> c. RAM. I have 2.5 mb RAM in my machine. I wouldn't mind buying two more
> 1 mb SIMM, but I don't want to throw away my current 1 mb SIMMs (120ns). I
> should be able to use it directly (Radius accelerator does it, doesn't
> it?) or should be able to put my SIMMs to the accelerator.
>
> d. Price. Again, as a poor college student, price IS a main
> consideration. If I can sell my SE (what would be a right price to
> sell?) and buy SE/30 with less money than I would otherwise spend from
> the accelerator, I would definitely go for SE/30.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Chang
> --
> Chang P. Woo | Chang.P.Woo@dartmouth.EDU (preferred)
> | changwoo@eleazar.dartmouth.EDU
> | HB 4489, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
If you've got University consortium pricing available, don't even think about
getting an accelerator. I was the project manager for Total System's 68020 and
68020/030 accelerator for the SE, and it's not cost effective in your
situtation (nor is any other accelerator). A used 2-floppy SE is worth about
$1,600 in the open marke--just don't try to sell it to someone who can buy it
at consortium prices--and the SE/30 is around $3,100. With only $1,500
difference between the two, you're better off selling it than adding an
accelerator or going for APPLE's motherboard swap.
A decent accelerator will cost from $600 to $1000+ and never be able to
GUARANTEE you 100% compatability with future operatng systems. Even the 68030
accelerator from Total Systems (the Gemini 020/030) can't, not to mention the
inability of the board to address more than 4 Megabytes of RAM. There are a
lot of people out there who have strange compatability problems between their
accelerator and various hard drives/monitors/whatever. I just got an upgrade
offer for a video digitizer that said, "Now works wit Radius Accelerators!"
Gee, I wonder how all those Radius owners felt up until now...
Regarding the cost of a new SE/30 vs. the motherboard swap, the extrre:
motherboard swap, the extra $$$ for the high-density drive kit makes it
impractical/ineffective.
--
Chang P. Woo | Chang.P.Woo@dartmouth.EDU (preferred)
| changwoo@eleazar.dartmouth.EDU
| HB 4489, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755