ag14+@andrew.cmu.edu (Albert H. Gough) (11/22/89)
In the latest MacWeek there is a report concerning the use of 4Mb SIMMS in a MacII or IIx. Apparently 4 Mb SIMMs will not work in a MacII, without buying the FDHD upgrade, which includes new ROMs. There is also some difference between 4 Mb SIMMs made of 4 Mbit chips vs 1 Mbit chips, besides the obvious differences in size and density. Can someone clarify the situation. Is this a hardware design flaw, a ROM bug or what? When I bought my MacII it was supposedly capable of having 128 Mb of RAM, assuming 16 Mb SIMM's were available. Now I find out that the limit is 8 Mb, unless I spend more money on an upgrade. Sounds to me like Apple made a mistake, and once again the customer pays. Any comments? Bert Gough Disclaimer: No one cares what I say, I'm just a graduate student.
malczews@girtab.usc.edu (Frank Malczewski) (11/26/89)
Bert, You should check out the revised-as-of-10/89 Tech Note 176 where this issue is now discussed. Not recalling the exact details, I got the impression that it was totally a hardware problem that will not go away by a ROM upgrade. The problem pertains to the fact that 4MB and larger SIMMs follow a standard different from the one Apple had anticipated when the II and the IIx were made available. The note goes on further to say that you will be pretty much stuck with 8MB max, and that no fix (i.e., recall) is likely on Apple's part. -- -- Frank Malczewski (malczews@girtab.usc.edu)
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (11/26/89)
In article <6688@merlin.usc.edu> malczews@girtab.usc.edu (Frank Malczewski) writes: >by a ROM upgrade. The problem pertains to the fact that 4MB and larger >SIMMs follow a standard different from the one Apple had anticipated >when the II and the IIx were made available. The note goes on further >to say that you will be pretty much stuck with 8MB max, and that no >fix (i.e., recall) is likely on Apple's part. Apple made certain assumptions about the 4mb chip standards when they designed the Mac II series which turned out to be false. Specifically they did not anticipate the addition of a test mode which was activated with each interrupt on the Mac II. Apple suggested that manufacturers could use custom logic to mask out the set of signals which activate this test mode. Also, the IIcx, SE/30, and IIci have been fixed in such a way that this mode is not activated, so any 4mb simms with or without such logic will work in these machines. Also, the boards which are being sold which use 32 1mb chips to provide 4 megs will work in any machine which can handle that much memory. HOWEVER: A ROM upgrade is indeed necessary for the original Mac II to use ANY TYPE of 4mb simms. The only way to get this upgrade is to buy the SuperDrive upgrade. I think the Tech Note describes this as "mysterious" or something. -- Mark Wilkins wilkins@jarthur.claremont.edu
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (12/02/89)
> HOWEVER: > A ROM upgrade is indeed necessary for the original Mac II to use ANY TYPE >of 4mb simms. The only way to get this upgrade is to buy the SuperDrive >upgrade. I think the Tech Note describes this as "mysterious" or something. Is this a different upgrade from that external memory / Nubus ROM upgrade? That upgrade was free, if you demanded it (i.e. if you actually had purchased a Nat. Semi. memory card which wouldn't work). Or is there YARU (Yet Another ROM upgrade)?
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (12/02/89)
In article <77800001@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >> HOWEVER: >> A ROM upgrade is indeed necessary for the original Mac II to use ANY TYPE >>of 4mb simms. The only way to get this upgrade is to buy the SuperDrive >>upgrade. I think the Tech Note describes this as "mysterious" or something. > >Is this a different upgrade from that external memory / Nubus ROM >upgrade? That upgrade was free, if you demanded it (i.e. if you >actually had purchased a Nat. Semi. memory card which wouldn't work). No, as the message above stated this is not the free external memory upgrade but rather the ROM upgrade which comes when you buy your Mac II one of Apple's nifty FDHD SuperDrives, which allows you to read and write 1.4 Mb disks and IBM-formatted disks, among others. -- Mark Wilkins wilkins@jarthur.claremont.edu
russ@key.COM (Russell Donnan) (12/05/89)
In article <77800001@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
{
{> HOWEVER:
{> A ROM upgrade is indeed necessary for the original Mac II to use ANY TYPE
{>of 4mb simms. The only way to get this upgrade is to buy the SuperDrive
{>upgrade. I think the Tech Note describes this as "mysterious" or something.
{
{Is this a different upgrade from that external memory / Nubus ROM
{upgrade? That upgrade was free, if you demanded it (i.e. if you
{actually had purchased a Nat. Semi. memory card which wouldn't work).
{
{Or is there YARU (Yet Another ROM upgrade)?
On the same note: I read an article in this month's EDN (Electronic
Design News) that quoted an Apple employee as saying that one would
need a ROM upgrade for a Mac // to use system 7.0. Is this true?
He based this upon the fact that the ROMs in the Mac //s are not
"32-bit clean." I would guess that this would be necessary to
use virtual memory. Now granted, V7.0 is vaporware (article guessed
3Q90, so, of course I am taking a wait-and-see attitude... but I don't
want to upgrade the ROMs and my drive if I don't have to. Anyone want
to comment?
-Russ
--
Russ Donnan (415) 623-2121
Amdahl Corporation, Key Computer Laboratories, Fremont, CA, USA
russ@key.amdahl.com, ...!{pacbell,sgi,amdahl}!key!russ
-To capture the essence of an opinion takes but one lawyer.miker@Apple.COM (Michael P. Radovancevich) (12/05/89)
In article <1276@key.COM> russ@xanadu.key.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: > >On the same note: I read an article in this month's EDN (Electronic >Design News) that quoted an Apple employee as saying that one would >need a ROM upgrade for a Mac // to use system 7.0. Is this true? >He based this upon the fact that the ROMs in the Mac //s are not >"32-bit clean." I would guess that this would be necessary to No ROM upgrade will be needed to run System 7.0. > >-Russ >-- >Russ Donnan (415) 623-2121 >Amdahl Corporation, Key Computer Laboratories, Fremont, CA, USA >russ@key.amdahl.com, ...!{pacbell,sgi,amdahl}!key!russ >-To capture the essence of an opinion takes but one lawyer. -Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michael P. Radovancevich | My opinions are not the product of Apple, | | CommToolbox Hack | but my products are the opinion of Apple. | | Apple Computer, Inc. | ---------------------------------------------- | | 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 27Y | Internet: miker@apple.com | | Cupertino, CA 95014 | UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!miker | | 408-974-1042 | Applelink:RADOVANCEVI1 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hpoppe@bierstadt.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) (12/06/89)
In article <5596@internal.Apple.COM> miker@Apple.COM (Michael P. Radovancevich) writes: %In article <1276@key.COM% russ@xanadu.key.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: %% %%On the same note: I read an article in this month's EDN (Electronic %%Design News) that quoted an Apple employee as saying that one would %%need a ROM upgrade for a Mac // to use system 7.0. Is this true? % %No ROM upgrade will be needed to run System 7.0. On the other hand, a ROM upgrade would be nice if it permitted 1 Meg Macs to run System 7.0. This would mean that Apple could drop the parallel support of System 6.x those those machines. It would allow Apple to sell new 1 Meg machines with System 7.0 in the box. It is conceivable that System 8.0 would require new ROMS on all machines (that System 8.0 will support). If so, I can appreciate why Apple would not want to make ROMs available for System 7 only to have to do it all over again for System 8. Herb Poppe NCAR INTERNET: hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (303) 497-1296 P.O. Box 3000 CSNET: hpoppe@ncar.CSNET Boulder, CO 80307 UUCP: hpoppe@ncar.UUCP
jeff@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Jeff White) (12/13/89)
In article <5553@ncar.ucar.edu> hpoppe@bierstadt.UCAR.EDU (Herb Poppe) writes: > >On the other hand, a ROM upgrade would be nice if it permitted 1 Meg >Macs to run System 7.0. This would mean that Apple could drop the >parallel support of System 6.x those those machines. It would allow >Apple to sell new 1 Meg machines with System 7.0 in the box. System 7.0 will run on Mac Plus's/SE's, you'll just need at least 2 Megs of RAM. While I guess Apple could someone design 7.0 to run with only 1 Meg if they put a lot of the new code in ROM, I think economically it's still probably cheaper to buy RAM. You can get 2 Megs of RAM (bumping a 1 Meg system up to 2.5M) for about $170, and the price seems to be dropping every week. How much do you think Apple would charge for the new ROMS and replacement of them? I would have to think at least around $100, so you don't gain that much. I'd rather have the extra RAM. Also, it's possible that Plus's/SE's may not be able to take a ROM as large as what is needed. There is 128k of ROM in the Plus (maybe SE as well, not sure). A IIx has 256k, and I think the IIxci has 512k (at least 256k). I'm not sure you could put 1 Meg or more of ROM in a Plus without another logic board, and once you are thinking about this, I think the change becomes unfeasible. Jeff White University of Pennsylvania jeff@eniac.seas.upenn.edu