eberard@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Edward Berard) (12/20/89)
Soon, I will be getting an SE/30 with 4 megs of RAM and an internal 80 megabyte hard drive. I already have 4 1-meg SIMMs, so an upgrade to 8 megabytes of RAM will cost me (in effect) nothing. I recently priced some 4 megabyte SIMMs at about $750 apiece, an found that I would be required to purchase at least 4 of these SIMMs. This means that for about $3000 I could have 20 megabytes of RAM (4 4-meg SIMMs plus 4 1-meg SIMMs), or I could save $3000, and have 8 megabytes of RAM. My question is this: What can I do with 20 megabytes of RAM that I could not do with 8 megabytes of RAM, which would justify the extra $3000? If it helps: - I love Multifinder, and it is not unusual for me to have 3 or 4 applications open at once, and to transfer information (e.g., graphics and text) among them. - I currently have a "plain" SE with 4 megabytes of RAM. - I am aware that System 7.0 is "just around the corner," i.e., April (maybe). Will this have (or should it have) an impact on my decision? -- Ed Berard (301) 353-9652
amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) (12/20/89)
In article <634@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu>, eberard@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Edward Berard) writes: > My question is this: What can I do with 20 megabytes of RAM that I > could not do with 8 megabytes of RAM, which would justify the extra > $3000? 1. Run A/UX and not worry much about swapping. 2. Under Mac OS 6.x, very little beyond running a 12 MB RAMdisk (which is not in itself such a bad idea). 3. When System 7.0 hits the streets ,and software houses get their act together and provide 32-bit clean applications, the extra memory will make MultiFinder quite happy. Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation --
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (12/20/89)
In article <634@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu> eberard@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Edward Berard) writes: >My question is this: What can I do with 20 megabytes of RAM that I >could not do with 8 megabytes of RAM, which would justify the extra >$3000? I don't think you can justofy the price unless you have some specific RAM-intensive application in mind. However, that doesn't mean that you couldn't get a lot of value out of it. > - I love Multifinder, and it is not unusual for me to have 3 > or 4 applications open at once, and to transfer information > (e.g., graphics and text) among them. You could run each of them in a very large partition, allowing a huge number of open files and very large sizes for the open files. > - I currently have a "plain" SE with 4 megabytes of RAM. This should give you a handle on whether you're pushing your actual RAM needs and whether 20 megs would be total overkill. > - I am aware that System 7.0 is "just around the corner," > i.e., April (maybe). Will this have (or should it have) an > impact on my decision? Yes. With an SE/30 and the virtual memory features of 7.0, your effective RAM size becomes equal to your actual RAM plus most of the free space on your hard disk. So, with 4 meg RAM and twenty megabytes of free space, you could do anything you could do with twenty megabytes of main RAM. However, virtual memory is slower than main memory. If I had twenty main megs to play with, I'd set all my applications to run in 3 megs and allocate a five-megabyte cache. The large cache would mean that probably every file you touched during a boot session would remain in memory until the machine was restarted. (Not quite, but close to it.) This should have a rather noticeable effect on speed, particularly if you are doing development work on medium or large sized software projects; all your source and all your tools should stay in cache constantly. And the large heaps for the applications should also minimize the time spent shuffling the heap around, and keep resources from being purged. On the other hand, for $3000, you can get a pretty speedy accelerator card, somewhere in the 33MHz to 50MHz range, and compilation tends to be compute-bound rather than disk-bound. The same goes for many more common tasks, such as page reformatting and spreadsheet recomputation. Your twenty megs would still leave, say, FullWrite, creeping along; a 40 MHz accelerator, however, would make it blazing fast. Overall, you'd probably make out better with the accelerator card, unless you are currently spending a lot of time waiting on the disk. That's why I say you probably can't justify the cost. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com FROM THE FOOL FILE: "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- George Bush in FREE INQUIRY magazine, Fall 1988
hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Josh Hodas) (12/20/89)
In article <9365@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >In article <634@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu> eberard@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Edward Berard) >writes: >>My question is this: What can I do with 20 megabytes of RAM that I >>could not do with 8 megabytes of RAM, which would justify the extra >>$3000? > >I don't think you can justofy the price unless you have some specific >RAM-intensive application in mind. However, that doesn't mean that >you couldn't get a lot of value out of it. > >> - I love Multifinder, and it is not unusual for me to have 3 >> or 4 applications open at once, and to transfer information >> (e.g., graphics and text) among them. > >You could run each of them in a very large partition, allowing a huge >number of open files and very large sizes for the open files. ... >If I had twenty main megs to play with, I'd set all my applications to >run in 3 megs and allocate a five-megabyte cache. The large cache >would mean that probably every file you touched during a boot session >would remain in memory until the machine was restarted. (Not quite, >but close to it.) This should have a rather noticeable effect on speed, >particularly if you are doing development work on medium or large sized >software projects; all your source and all your tools should stay in >cache constantly. And the large heaps for the applications should also >minimize the time spent shuffling the heap around, and keep resources >from being purged. ... >-- >Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com > >FROM THE FOOL FILE: >"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they > be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." > -- George Bush in FREE INQUIRY magazine, Fall 1988 Sorry Tim, I think you misunderstand a basic limitation of pre-7.0 mac OS. They recognize only up to 8 megs of RAM. Thus the only current use for such extra RAM is for RAM-disk or under A/UX. This will change soon, both do to 7.0 as well as (hopefully sooner than 7.0) some software currently in the works by a third party. (I cant say more but will as soon as I'm allowed). Josh <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> <line eater fodder> ------------------------- Josh Hodas (hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) 4223 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 222-7112 (home) (215) 898-5423 (school office)
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (12/21/89)
In article <634@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu> eberard@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Edward Berard) writes: >My question is this: What can I do with 20 megabytes of RAM that I >could not do with 8 megabytes of RAM, which would justify the extra >$3000? Digitize one side of "Alice's Resteraunt" in 22kHz sound? :-) I have a Mac SE/30 with 5 Megs RAM; I also use MultiFinder all the time, and usually have three or four things going at once. It is *rare* for me to run out of memory at this level -- and this is someone who digitizes ridiculous amounts of sound. So I think, in general, that 8 Megs really will be just as handy for your purposes (as stated in your article) as 20 Megs. > - I am aware that System 7.0 is "just around the corner," > i.e., April (maybe). Will this have (or should it have) an > impact on my decision? It'll have virtual memory, which means (approximately, and in one paragraph, and without getting into an explanation of virtual memory) that you'll be able to simulate 20 Megs of RAM with 8 megs and a section of your hard disk. IF Apple does it right. Really, use that $7,000 for what you REALLY want on an SE/30 -- a big color monitor with 24-bit color and a Quickdraw Accelerator! (And if you don't want it, send it to me! :-) ) "Michael Palin was on 'Carson' last night... and he talked a little about Graham Chapman & the memorial service they held for him. Ten or so people got up & gave tributes to Graham, & then it fell to John Cleese. He said, 'Graham Chapman, co-writer of the 'Dead Parrot' sketch, is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired & gone to meet his maker...' & ran the whole gamut of his parrot speech, winding up with 'He is an EX-Chapman.' Cleese went on to add that some people might find that tribute offensive, which was exactly why he did it: Graham loved to offend people." --- Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft, hplsla, uiucuxc}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (12/21/89)
In article <18355@netnews.upenn.edu> hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Josh Hodas) writes: >Sorry Tim, I think you misunderstand a basic limitation of pre-7.0 mac OS. >They recognize only up to 8 megs of RAM. Thus the only current use for >such extra RAM is for RAM-disk or under A/UX. Even on newer ROM machines like the IIci and the SE/30? I understood those ROMs to be 32-bit clean, and I believe that System 6.0.x itself is 32-bit clean. You may be right, though; the sources I've seen have not been clear on this point. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "I slept with Faith, and found a corpse in my arms on awaking; I drank and danced all night with Doubt, and found her a virgin in the morning." -- Aleister Crowley, THE BOOK OF LIES