marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) (12/19/89)
I've seen a lot of talk about the case-splitting tool. As many have commented, you can duplicate its functions pretty well other ways. One neat tool that Apple's just made (or contracted to be made) is called a SIMM removal tool. Its an adjustable plastic tool that has two teeth that you slip over the edges of the SIMM. By pushing the tool deeper, it pops the SIMM out. It was designed to remove SIMMs faster and lessens (greatly!!) the chances of breaking the SIMM sockets. It works especially well for the Mac II family ( because of the angles on the SEs, it doesn't work quite as well, though its still 100% better than the manual method). On a Mac II (cx) I can remove both banks (8 SIMMs) in under 10 seconds (without rushing a bit). When I was first getting the hang of the tool it still took under 45 seconds (my first try) to remove all 8 SIMMs. Most of your dealers should know about it, and I'm sure are using it now (its been out about 3-4 months). There are rumors that some people actually try to do the difficult job of installing new SIMMs themselves (thereby, possibly, voiding your 90-day warantee). As an Apple employee, I must warn you that this is not advisted! (Doing it yourself would mean that your SIMMs would have 2-5 year warantees vs Apples 90 day, you'd spend $80/1mb vs $120/1mb, and other HORRIBLE consequences that are just too frightening to mention). I've just checked with our service department--your dealers CAN sell you this tool (whether or not they will is another matter). It won't be exactly cheap-- I'd guess at least $50 dollars (so it'd be helpfull it you changed SIMMs somewhat often). As far as I know, its called a SIMM removal tool; it's part# is "AMP 821987-02" Thought I'd let you know about a neat product. It may not make $$ sense to buy it, but it really does work (I use it many times a day). --Mark Dawson Apple Service Diagnostic Engineering (though not speaking officially).
rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl (Annard "Icon" Brouwer) (12/19/89)
In article <37361@apple.Apple.COM> marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes: >There are rumors that some people actually try to do the difficult job of >installing new SIMMs themselves (thereby, possibly, voiding your 90-day >warantee). As an Apple employee, I must warn you that this is not advisted! >(Doing it yourself would mean that your SIMMs would have 2-5 year warantees >vs Apples 90 day, you'd spend $80/1mb vs $120/1mb, and other >HORRIBLE consequences that are just too frightening to mention). > >--Mark Dawson > Apple Service Diagnostic Engineering (though not speaking officially). Sorry Mark, this isn't a flame to you personally but to people in general who are always warning about not getting into the inner secrets of their computer (or another electrical device). I (and some friends of mine) are always doing just this and nothing has been going wrong whatsoever. The chances of electrocuting ICs through a charged finger aren't that big as people always want you to believe. If you'll be carefull than nothing much can go wrong (the common sense approach, like making your room humid enough, not charging yourself on a nylon carpet etc.). Let's take a dutch example of the consequences of using the method described in the quoted article. This means that I (as a student with the necessary discounts Apple gives me) have to pay three times as much (300$ compared to 900$ for installing 2Mb in my Plus if I bought at an Apple-dealer. Well, sorry, but I'd rather do something like that myself (and I install this in 4 minutes, without any tools offered to me by several companies but a simple screwdriver I found somewhere...). Ok I admit not everybody is fit to do some hobbying with his machine, but you don't always need qualified personel to achieve something (on your own risk of course :) ). Greetings and happy hobbying, Annard -- | Annard Brouwer Bitnet : rcgbbaab@heitue51 | Dreef 74 UUCP : rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl | NL-5504 LD Veldhoven packet-radio : pe1koo@pi8mid | The Netherlands [44.137.28.6]
chungs@sun.acs.udel.edu (Sung Chung) (12/20/89)
In article <1339@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl> rcbaab@urc.tue.nl writes: >In article <37361@apple.Apple.COM> marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes: >>There are rumors that some people actually try to do the difficult job of >>installing new SIMMs themselves (thereby, possibly, voiding your 90-day >>warantee). As an Apple employee, I must warn you that this is not advisted! >>(Doing it yourself would mean that your SIMMs would have 2-5 year warantees >>vs Apples 90 day, you'd spend $80/1mb vs $120/1mb, and other >>HORRIBLE consequences that are just too frightening to mention). >> >>--Mark Dawson >> Apple Service Diagnostic Engineering (though not speaking officially). > >Sorry Mark, this isn't a flame to you personally but to people in general >who are always warning about not getting into the inner secrets of their Sorry Annard, this isn't a flaime to you personally but to people in general who are always flaming articles that either they have fully read or that they didn't fully understand. Now doesn't the possibility exist that Mark isn't trying to discourse people from installing their own SIMMs, rather he is making an attempt at humor using our old friend satire. Now if I'm mistaken, you certainly to melt my screen. >Greetings and happy hobbying, Sung Chung Bitnet: chungs@pyr1.acs.udel.edu Work Phone: Don't call me, I'm busy Disclaimer: I am not responsible f Home Phone: You wish UUCP: I wish I knew Quote of the Year: "I Know Where You Live"
marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) (12/20/89)
In article <1339@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl> rcbaab@urc.tue.nl writes: >In article <37361@apple.Apple.COM> marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes: >>There are rumors that some people actually try to do the difficult job of >>installing new SIMMs themselves (thereby, possibly, voiding your 90-day >>warantee). As an Apple employee, I must warn you that this is not advisted! >>(Doing it yourself would mean that your SIMMs would have 2-5 year warantees >>vs Apples 90 day, you'd spend $80/1mb vs $120/1mb, and other >>HORRIBLE consequences that are just too frightening to mention). >> >>--Mark Dawson >> Apple Service Diagnostic Engineering (though not speaking officially). > >Sorry Mark, this isn't a flame to you personally but to people in general [ more of a non-personal flame ...] >risk of course :) ). > >Greetings and happy hobbying, >Annard >-- >| Annard Brouwer Bitnet : rcgbbaab@heitue51 I guess Annard missed my sarcasm; my main point was that there is a new tool that greatly helps in removing SIMMs. On another note (this is official): the PC 5.25" drive card is NOT recommended for the Macintosh IIci. There turns out to be some timing problems with the card. As far as the research we've done, this is not an intermittent problem-- you either have a card that works in the IIci or it doesn't. If you've got a PC 5.25" drive card && find yours doesn't work in the IIci, try moving it to slot E (next to the power supply). On all of the PC 5.25" drive cards that have failed so far, moving it to this slot has "fixed" (or hidden) the problem. Your dealers should know about this problem (the one dealer I called today didn't); if you have any questions they can't answer, I'll be glad to try to handle them (just remember that I'll be answering "officially" and will only be able to divulge "okayed" information). -Mark Dawson Apple Service Diagnostics
rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl (Annard "Icon" Brouwer) (12/20/89)
Ok Mark, I apologize to you immediately! Please accept them. Loads of ppl have tried to point out that I missed a byte in your article. Too many soldering clouds in my eyes I guess :)) Well, it seems clear to me now that one doesn't have to be afraid of opening _any_ computer anymore. Let's hope that Apple dealers won't get too busy repairing broken Macs in the oncoming weeks... A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all! Annard P.S. My remarks aren't meant to humiliate you Mark, it's the idea I care about so _NO_ offence meant to you at all!!! (Let this be clear to everybody...) -- | Annard Brouwer Bitnet : rcgbbaab@heitue51 | Dreef 74 UUCP : rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl | NL-5504 LD Veldhoven packet-radio : pe1koo@pi8mid | The Netherlands [44.137.28.6]
rjudy@cs.umass.edu (WHEELS GO ROUND) (01/06/90)
In article <37361@apple.Apple.COM>, marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes... >I've seen a lot of talk about the case-splitting tool. As many have commented, >you can duplicate its functions pretty well other ways. One neat tool that >Apple's just made (or contracted to be made) is called a SIMM removal tool. >There are rumors that some people actually try >to do the difficult job of installing new SIMMs themselves (Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and not those of my employer...etc). Installing SIMMS is not difficult at all; I've done several in our dept. >It won't be exactly cheap-- >I'd guess at least $50 dollars (so it'd be helpfull it you changed SIMMs >somewhat often). As far as I know, its called a SIMM removal tool; it's part# >is "AMP 821987-02" To remove SIMMS, I use a small flat blade jeweler's screwdriver. I haven't bothered timing myself but I can move right along, emptying out 2 banks with no wasted prying or breakage. We received a SIMM extraction tool with some SIMMS we received from Sun and I still like the screwdriver better. There is no part # on it and it looks like an unbent paper clip (but is stronger). I don't know if Sun would sell them but if they did, I don't think they'd cost $50.00. > >--Mark Dawson > Apple Service Diagnostic Engineering (though not speaking officially).
levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (01/08/90)
I've opened my SE twice, each time to replace two of the 256K SIMMs
with 1M SIMMs. (The first time I had to figure out how.)
I used my two thumbnails as gently as possible to spread the tabs just
enough to lift the SIMMs forward. When reinserting the new SIMMs, I
placed my thumbnails in the same place and slid the SIMMs down between
them, so that the pressure from them pushed my thumbnails enough to
open the tabs and let the SIMMs slide in. (I assume this makes some
sense to anyone who has replaced SIMMs.) Was I inviting disaster this
way, using no particular tool?
(Also, I did not remove the resistor (old motherboard :-( ) for 256K-only,
rather I just clipped one end and left it hanging. Was this a bad idea?)
/JBL
=
Nets: levin@bbn.com | "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's
or {...}!bbn!levin | bureau that morning. Wide-eyed and distraught, she
POTS: (617)873-3463 | stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor."marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) (01/08/90)
In article <50537@bbn.COM> levin@BBN.COM (Joel B Levin) writes: >I've opened my SE twice, each time to replace two of the 256K SIMMs >with 1M SIMMs. (The first time I had to figure out how.) > >I used my two thumbnails as gently as possible to spread the tabs just >enough to lift the SIMMs forward. When reinserting the new SIMMs, I >placed my thumbnails in the same place and slid the SIMMs down between >them, so that the pressure from them pushed my thumbnails enough to >open the tabs and let the SIMMs slide in. (I assume this makes some >sense to anyone who has replaced SIMMs.) Was I inviting disaster this >way, using no particular tool? > Not necessarily--I just mentioned the SIMM removal tool because it reduces the risk of breaking a SIMM socket (thus needing to replace the logic board--i.e. $$) plus it makes removing them a lot faster. I never did break a SIMM socket using my fingernails (though I did go through a lot of fingernails). I saw a post recently saying someone uses sometype of jewelers tool and claimed to get the same kind of removal speed that I claimed the SIMM removal tool had ( though I doubt it would reduce the breakage of sockets as well as the SIMM tool ). You can save a lot of money, time, plus get a longer warantee by putting in SIMMs yourself--BUT you risk breaking the SIMM socket. If you do this, you'll need to replace the whole logic board, which will cost WAY more than the $$ you saved by doing the replacement yourself. The SIMM tool was designed to help reduce this breakage problem and speeds up the removals to boot. --Mark
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/09/90)
In article <37675@apple.Apple.COM> marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes: >You can save a lot of money, time, plus get a longer warantee by putting in >SIMMs yourself--BUT you risk breaking the SIMM socket. If you do this, you'll >need to replace the whole logic board, which will cost WAY more than the $$ you >saved by doing the replacement yourself. The SIMM tool was designed to help >reduce this breakage problem and speeds up the removals to boot. I'm hesitant to admit that I know this, but breaking the clips on the SIMM socket does not ruin the motherboard. Electrician's tape works perfectly well to hold SIMMs in place, as long as you don't make a habit of transporting your Mac. You do not have to replace the motherboard; just stretch the tape from edge to edge. I've opened the computer a few times since then and there has not been any melting. But in any case, I haven't noticed that the labor charges for installing SIMMs are very high, so I'm not sure the statement about saving "a lot" of money is true either. (I haven't paid such charges myself, but I have some non-gearhead friends who have. $120 per SIMM including installation. A lot of mail-order places charge that just for the SIMMs with no installation.) It's what, about ten minutes of labor? Even at $60/hour that's not very much. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "But don't you see, the color of wine in a crystal glass can be spiritual. The look in a face, the music of a violin. A Paris theater can be infused with the spiritual for all its solidity." -- Lestat, THE VAMPIRE LESTAT, Anne Rice
jdhill@bbn.com (Jack D. Hill) (01/10/90)
In article <9573@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >I'm hesitant to admit that I know this, but breaking the clips on the >SIMM socket does not ruin the motherboard. Electrician's tape works >perfectly well to hold SIMMs in place, as long as you don't make a >habit of transporting your Mac. You do not have to replace the >motherboard; just stretch the tape from edge to edge. I've opened the >computer a few times since then and there has not been any melting. Another option is to put a dab of glue from a "Hot Glue Gun" in the holes of the SIMM through which the little tabs go. The glue is easily pealed off later if needed and seems to be secure enough. We did this with some boards we used in engineering development where repeated removal and reinstallation of SIMMs were necessary. Jack
rjudy@cs.umass.edu (WHEELS GO ROUND) (01/12/90)
In article <37675@apple.Apple.COM>, marc@Apple.COM (Mark Dawson) writes... >In article <50537@bbn.COM> levin@BBN.COM (Joel B Levin) writes: >>I've opened my SE twice, each time to replace two of the 256K SIMMs >>with 1M SIMMs. (The first time I had to figure out how.) >> >>I used my two thumbnails as gently as possible to spread the tabs just >>enough to lift the SIMMs forward. When reinserting the new SIMMs, I >>placed my thumbnails in the same place and slid the SIMMs down between >>them, so that the pressure from them pushed my thumbnails enough to >>open the tabs and let the SIMMs slide in. (I assume this makes some >>sense to anyone who has replaced SIMMs.) Was I inviting disaster this >>way, using no particular tool? >> > >Not necessarily--I just mentioned the SIMM removal tool because it reduces the >risk of breaking a SIMM socket (thus needing to replace the logic board--i.e. >$$) plus it makes removing them a lot faster. Before I started using a jeweler's screwdriver (sold in department store hardware departments, usually packaged in 5 different sizes), I did break a socket and managed to install the simm anyway; Jack in article 789 and Tim in article 776 also stated the ways they effected repairs after socket breakage. None of us needed to replace the whole mother board!? >I never did break a SIMM socket >using my fingernails (though I did go through a lot of fingernails). I saw >a post recently saying someone uses sometype of jewelers tool and claimed to >get the same kind of removal speed that I claimed the SIMM removal tool had ( >though I doubt it would reduce the breakage of sockets as well as the SIMM tool The jeweler's tool is a jeweler's screwdriver (just a small screwdriver), as mentioned above. No, I did not claim I got the same kind of removal speed as you. I never timed myself; I only stated that I can move right along when removing and installing simms without hitches or breaking any- thing. >You can save a lot of money, time, plus get a longer warantee by putting in >SIMMs yourself--BUT you risk breaking the SIMM socket. If you do this, you'll >need to replace the whole logic board, which will cost WAY more than the $$ you >saved by doing the replacement yourself. Again, it is not always necessary to replace the whole mother board if you break a simm socket. > The SIMM tool was designed to help >reduce this breakage problem and speeds up the removals to boot. I don't deny this, I just am pointing out that there are alternatives to the tool and that you won't necessarily break the socket if you don't use it and if you do break it, this doesn't ruin the whole mother board!