st5@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (01/17/90)
I'm interested in getting a CD-ROM player mainly for use on the Mac, but I also need to access several CDs from the PS/2. Could some kind-hearted soul suggest a player that might fit well in both environments and what struggles I might encounter in switching back and forth. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The acrid, unpleasant smell of burnt poetry." -P.G. Wodehouse Christopher Stuart Bitnet: ST5@CORNELLA 215 CCC Internet: ST5@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU Cornell University Compu$erve: 76304,522 Ithaca, NY 14853 (607) 255-8304
blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) (01/17/90)
In article <19715@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU> st5@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU writes: > I'm interested in getting a CD-ROM player mainly for use on the > Mac, but I also need to access several CDs from the PS/2. I have a catalog from the "Bureau of Electronic Publishing" (201) 857-4300, Fax (201) 857-3031. In this catalog they list drives by Denon, NEC, and Toshiba that have both IBM and Macintosh interfaces. As I understand it, all you'd need on the IBM side is a SCSI interface card, cable, and software. All you need on the Mac side is cable and software. > Could some kind-hearted soul suggest ... what struggles I might > encounter in switching back and forth. The violent wrenching of your mind as you try to accomodate two different styles of computing... :-) --Brian Bechtel blob@apple.com "My opinion, not Apple's"
perry@key.COM (Perry The Cynic) (01/19/90)
In article <6211@internal.Apple.COM> blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) writes: > In article <19715@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU> st5@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU writes: > > I'm interested in getting a CD-ROM player mainly for use on the > > Mac, but I also need to access several CDs from the PS/2. > > I have a catalog from the "Bureau of Electronic Publishing" (201) > 857-4300, Fax (201) 857-3031. In this catalog they list drives by Denon, > NEC, and Toshiba that have both IBM and Macintosh interfaces. As I > understand it, all you'd need on the IBM side is a SCSI interface card, > cable, and software. All you need on the Mac side is cable and software. Yes, each of these drives will work with *either* a PC-compatible, *or* a Mac, in the sense that (given the appropriate SCSI card for the PC, and the right software) you can connect it to either and it will work. The Bureau's people claim to know how, and are willing to sell you solutions. I haven't taken them up on it (yet). Does anybody have experiences (good or bad) with those people? On the other hand, if you actually want to use your drive with *both*, switching it from one to the other as desired, you'll have a lot more problems. For one, you'll probably have to reboot both machines anytime you make a switch, no matter how cleverly you do it. Then you need to consider proper termination of both SCSI buses, both with and without your CD drive on them. That should be simple if the CD drive is the only (external) SCSI device on both machines. And then of course there's the reliability problem of continually connecting and disconnecting devices on your SCSI bus(es). I suppose I could build a switchbox. It would need to connect a common "tail" of SCSI devices to one of two "head" buses, while properly terminating the other one. I'm not a hardware guy though - comments, anybody? In gray theory, it should be possible to put both the PC and the Mac onto one unified SCSI bus. I'm considering the possibility, but what I'm hearing isn't encouraging. The Mac's SCSI implementation is said to be lacking important features of the standard (proper arbitration, for one), and typically each SCSI controller thinks it owns the world. It might work if you get a PC SCSI controller than can be switched to be an ID other than zero (your Mac internal disk, if any) and seven (the Mac). Seeing how I have large SCSI disks on both my Mac and my PC, I'm somewhat reluctant to experiment. Unfortunately, the PC/Mac issue for CD ROMS is important. As of today, about 70% of all CD ROM titles (of my random sample) seem to come with PC retrieval software, with the remaining 30% being Mac-ish disks. I don't want to give up on either side. But what's a user to do? I'm not sure... -- perry -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Perry The Cynic (Peter Kiehtreiber) perry@arkon.key.com ** What good signature isn't taken yet? ** ...!pacbell!key!perry
jdu@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (john.d.unruh) (01/19/90)
In article <1391@key.COM> perry@arkon.key.COM (Perry The Cynic) writes: > >Unfortunately, the PC/Mac issue for CD ROMS is important. As of today, >about 70% of all CD ROM titles (of my random sample) seem to come with >PC retrieval software, with the remaining 30% being Mac-ish disks. I don't >want to give up on either side. But what's a user to do? I'm not sure... > -- perry >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Perry The Cynic (Peter Kiehtreiber) perry@arkon.key.com >** What good signature isn't taken yet? ** ...!pacbell!key!perry I have used some reference CD ROMs in a library on a PC. The data comes from several different vendors, and the user interface to access the data differs from vendor to vendor. As an occasional user (three or four times a year), I find it difficult to use despite being accomplished with computers. I think the right solution is to invent a standard way to store the information on the CD ROM and then to have a user interface program for each type of computer (PC, MAC, ATARI ST, AMIGA, etc) that comes on a floppy for that machine or is sold separately. Then the information publishers can put out the information for the largest possible market and the information users can have a compatible interface to the CD ROM media from all vendors. With current technology, perhaps a relational database and standardized image and sound formats would solve the problem. In a way what we have is like designing CD players (audio) that all play the same CDs, but that have interfaces (audio out) that is not standardized. In that sort of system, only those with the "right" receiver, integrated amp, or preamp could use the CD player. John Unruh
dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (01/20/90)
In article <12771@cbnewsd.ATT.COM> jdu@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (john.d.unruh) writes: > I think the right solution is to invent a standard way to store the > information on the CD ROM and then to have a user interface program for > each type of computer (PC, MAC, ATARI ST, AMIGA, etc) that comes on a > floppy for that machine or is sold separately. Then the information > publishers can put out the information for the largest possible market > and the information users can have a compatible interface to the CD ROM > media from all vendors. With current technology, perhaps a relational > database and standardized image and sound formats would solve the > problem. Much of the standardization needed to do this is already in place. CD-ROMs can be written in the ISO 9660 format (or its older cousin High Sierra). These formats define a standard for the CD-ROM's table-of-contents and directories, file-naming conventions, and so forth. It's entirely possible to have a CD-ROM which is acceptable to both the Mac (via the ISO 9660 Foreign File interface) and to an MS-DOS machine (via the CD-ROM Extensions), and to other machines as well. It isn't even necessary to ship retrieval software on a floppy. ISO 9660 allows vendors to define some system-specific extensions to the directory format, and to define "associated" files. Apple has defined a set of extensions specific to the Macintosh; with these extensions, you can store a file's resource fork, set file types and owners, and provide specific icons for files. A CD-ROM using these extensions remains ISO-9660 conformant, and can be read by an MS-DOS machine, and Amiga, etc. I just received a copy of the GRIPS CD-ROM... it contains image-processing programs, and many hundreds of megabytes of image data. It contains executable MS-DOS programs, as well as double-clickable Mac applications. Other vendors' applications could be placed on the disk, as well. The next step will be for information-sellers to adopt one or more standard formats for the _contents_ of information files... standard databases, etc. I suspect that individual information-providers will make their own decisions about which formats to support, based on what they see as their target markets, the quality of standard-conformant retrieval engines on various platforms, etc. > In a way what we have is like designing CD players (audio) that all > play the same CDs, but that have interfaces (audio out) that is not > standardized. In that sort of system, only those with the "right" > receiver, integrated amp, or preamp could use the CD player. Yup. Or like the situation with Quad sound a decade ago. I think it will get better, now that there's a vendor-independent, international standard for the disk directories and table-of-contents. Information vendors will find it to their advantage to use this standard, and to use a database format which is compatible with multiple runtime environments... this will increase their potential market, without forcing them to reimplement everything from the ground up, press multiple runs of CD-ROM, etc. -- Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 493-8805 UUCP: ...!{ames,apple,uunet}!coherent!dplatt DOMAIN: dplatt@coherent.com INTERNET: coherent!dplatt@ames.arpa, ...@uunet.uu.net USNAIL: Coherent Thought Inc. 3350 West Bayshore #205 Palo Alto CA 94303
urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de (01/20/90)
In comp.sys.mac.hardware perry@arkon.key.COM (Perry The Cynic) writes:
<
< Unfortunately, the PC/Mac issue for CD ROMS is important. As of today,
< about 70% of all CD ROM titles (of my random sample) seem to come with
< PC retrieval software, with the remaining 30% being Mac-ish disks. I don't
< want to give up on either side. But what's a user to do? I'm not sure...
< -- perry
Can the PC be connected to LocalTalk?
If so, the solution is going to be slow (unless you can use Ethernet hardware
or something) but manageable. Connect the CD-ROM to the Mac, publish it with
your favorite AppleShare-lookalike (my own should be ready sometime, too :-)
and mount the disk from the PC. Basically, no problem.
--
Matthias Urlichs