ebeling@uw-vlsi (Carl Ebeling) (05/07/90)
Can I get a Mac keyboard with the CNTL in the "right" place. ie. CapsLock and CNTL reversed?
jdevoto@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) (05/08/90)
In article <230@beaver.cs.washington.edu> ebeling@cs.washington.edu (Carl Ebeling) writes: >Can I get a Mac keyboard with the CNTL in the "right" place. >ie. CapsLock and CNTL reversed? It depends on your specific religious beliefs about placement of the control key :-). The Apple Standard ADB keyboard has the control key above the shift key, and the caps lock key below. The Apple Extended keyboard has these two keys reversed. Personally, I prefer the latter placement, with the control key at the bottom left corner of the keyboard, but you don't mention which placement you consider "right". -- ========= jeanne a. e. devoto ======================================== jdevoto@apple.com | You may not distribute this article under a jdevoto@well.sf.ca.us | compilation copyright without my permission. ______________________________________________________________________ Apple Computer and I are not authorized | CI$: 72411,165 to speak for each other. | AppleLink: SQA.TEST
ianf@draken.nada.kth.se (Ian Feldman) (05/08/90)
In article <40810@apple.Apple.COM> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto (jdevoto@Apple.COM) writes: > It depends on your specific religious beliefs about placement of the control > key :-). The Apple Standard ADB keyboard has the control key above the > shift key, and the caps lock key below. The Apple Extended keyboard has > these two keys reversed. Personally, I prefer the latter placement, with the > control key at the bottom left corner of the keyboard, but you don't mention > which placement you consider "right". Actually, the question has as much to do with religion as, say, the average volume of holes in Swiss cheese. It's simply a matter of conforming to keyboard layout standards -- of which there are several, depending on how one defines the latter. I suppose that you meant to say "American Standard ADB" keyboard, (ie the "normal" one, not its aircraft-carrier cousin,) when you said "Apple Standard". It so happens that the prevailing "market standard" keybord in the USA has the CTRL key above the shift key. So Apple has made a decision to conform to that, when selling the large keyboards in America, rather than to standartize on the only other keyboard- layout standard -- the ISO (International Standard Organization's) one. Part of it is probably due to fear of meeting initial user hostility towards an (admittedly better laid out and more compatible with future products) Apple keyboard that "differs from the others in the office". Ie, kowtowing to users' conservatism and not a small deal of plain ignorance. But the other part of Apple's decision not to stick to one "standard" keyboard in its line is undoubtedly what I would term the "American General Dislike And Mistrust Of International, esp. `European', Organizations". After all -- these decisions were taken by men and women of flesh and blood, with clear, culturally defined, (here: American-tainted) preferences and prejudices, not by some omnipotent, infallible "Apple Product Planners" that can do no wrong. In Europa, with its greater many number of languages, there is also a higher degree of awareness and need for a standard "standard" keyboard. It so happens that I'm typing, and has been doing it since Nov. of 1987, on a Swedish ISO-layout ADB keyboard (which ought to be called "Small", not "Standard" in the first place anyway, to prevent confusion as to what the latter word might refer to), that has the CTRL key right there in the lower left corner, and the caps lock above the shift key. Just as the ISO Keyboard Layout Standard recommends. I'd say the ISO keyboard layout with its potentially greater conformance to a standard across other hardware platforms wins hands down, even if average small frequency of use of the caps lock key in no way justifies its size nor prime position on the keyboard, as opposed to that of the CTRL key in the lower-left corner of it. Still, the latter is placed at a boundary of the "keyboard square", which means that it is far easier to distinguish by feel alone, (as are other similarly placed "corner" keys) than the caps lock, squeezed between two "similar-feel" keys along the edge. So ultimately we're dealing not with religion but with simple matters of ergonomics. Speaking of which -- when will Apple release the Portable's ADB keyboard, sans the numeric pad, in a case of its own, on its own? Do please remember that not every Apple user is a public accountant-type of person, that measures a product's worth accordingly to its potential use in bean-counting activities. I'd say "small is more than beautiful", it is needed here. Realease such a key-padless ADB productr and you've got yourself a customer.... --Ian Feldman / ianf@nada.kth.se || uunet!nada.kth.se!ianf / The "I had the bug narrowed down to a subrutine and then I lost all interest" hacker
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (05/08/90)
In article <1990May8.050821.20052@kth.se> ianf@nada.kth.se (Ian Feldman) writes: > > of plain ignorance. But the other part of Apple's decision not to stick > to one "standard" keyboard in its line is undoubtedly what I would term > the "American General Dislike And Mistrust Of International, esp. > `European', Organizations". After all -- these decisions were taken > by men and women of flesh and blood, with clear, culturally defined, > (here: American-tainted) preferences and prejudices, not by some omnipotent, > infallible "Apple Product Planners" that can do no wrong. Wow, and here I thought that the Apple Standard was just the IIGS keyboard in a different case, and that the IIGS keyboard had the CTRL key where it was because that's the way the Apple // series has always had it (before ISO even HAD a standard). I'm sure glad that you explained to me that it was good old American ethnocentricism at fault. I'll never make the mistake of thinking Americans have good reason to ignore ISO again. (Disclaimer: I use the Battleship Saratoga, and I like it better.) -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu ][, ][+, ///, ///+, //e, //c, IIGS, //c+ --- Any questions?
ericw@manta.NOSC.MIL (Eric Williams) (05/09/90)
In article <40810@apple.Apple.COM> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto writes: > The Apple Standard ADB keyboard has the control key above the > shift key, and the caps lock key below. Huh?? Look again. The capslock key is *above* the shift, and the control key is *below* the shift key, where they belong -- even IBM figured this out and fixed it :-) And she works for Apple????!!! _________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric D. Williams Adam: Is that an Apple? Computer Sciences Corp. Eve: No silly, ericw@nosc.mil It's a Mac! _________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) (05/09/90)
In article <1085@manta.NOSC.MIL>, ericw@manta.NOSC.MIL (Eric Williams) writes: > Huh?? Look again. [...] And she works for Apple????!!! Bzzzt. You are confusing the Standard ADB Keyboard with the Extended ADB keyboard. I like the control key above the shift (having learned on a VT100), but I have been growing fonder of the other way 'round, since it involves having control keys on both sides, symmetrically placed. -- Amanda Walker, InterCon Systems Corporation -- "Y'know, you can't have, like, a light, without a dark to stick it in... You know what I'm sayin'?" --Arlo Guthrie
jdevoto@Apple.COM (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) (05/09/90)
In article <1085@manta.NOSC.MIL> ericw@nosc.mil (Eric D. Williams) writes: >In article <40810@apple.Apple.COM> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto writes: >> The Apple Standard ADB keyboard has the control key above the >> shift key, and the caps lock key below. > Huh?? Look again. The capslock key is *above* the shift, and the > control key is *below* the shift key, where they belong -- even IBM > figured this out and fixed it :-) Son, I'm sitting here with a Standard ADB keyboard in my hand, model M0116. The control key and capslock key placement are as stated above. You may be looking at an Extended keyboard (model M0115), which has the capslock and control key placement reversed from the standard keyboard. > And she works for Apple????!!! No, as a matter of fact, I don't work for Apple. -- ========= jeanne a. e. devoto ======================================== jdevoto@apple.com | You may not distribute this article under a jdevoto@well.sf.ca.us | compilation copyright without my permission. ______________________________________________________________________ Apple Computer and I are not authorized | CI$: 72411,165 to speak for each other. | AppleLink: SQA.TEST