cycy@isl1.ri.cmu.edu (Scum) (06/06/90)
Here is a summary of the responses to my reequest for information on which
company to buy removable hard drives from. The following are the
possibilities we were considering, along with a summary of comments (if
any) we got about them:
Hard Drives International Powerdrive 44Mb Removable
- mixed reviews. Some people say their service has declined
recently.
Cutting Edge 45Mb removable
Mirror Technologies RM42
- good support, software, and drive.
Ehman 45Mb removable
- bad technical support and software
Third Wave Computing 45R
MacLand SyQuest 44Mb removable
SunStor Systems SunDrive 44R
DPI 44R
Power User 40 Mb removable
ClubMac SyQuest 44Mb removable
- glowing recommendation
APS SyQuest 45Mb removable
- very popular with people
Maya SyQuest drive
MacProducts USA 45 Mb removable
- bad support (termed the worst on the planet)
We didn't get any input on any of the drives without comments, unfortunately.
I came across a file which claimed that Ehman and Cutting Edge are the same
company, but I'm not sure I buy that since they advertise competitively. But who
knows?
We also got recommendation for a couple of drives we didn't list:
Bernoulli boxes
MicroTech
Micronet
These three were not on our list because they exceeded our price range ("we"
being a small volunteer organisation [unofficially non-profit... we still
have to file for the official status], not my lab).
Also mentioned were two drives we hadn't heard of:
Relax 45
- good drive, not so good software
Mactel
- not tested yet, but quite inexpensive
I am appending at the end a file of information I found on syquest drives.
It has additional drives which we were not considering, and more opinions.
Also, it has a very well done summary, though I'm sure pricing information
is out of date.
For those of you who are currious, we are planning to go with Mirror because of
the combination of positive recommendations, warranty, and cost.
Thanks for all your replies.
-- Chris.
---------------------------------------------------
One person said he had very bad experiences with Ehman's technical support,
but asked not to be quoted.
---------------------------------------------------
"Our lab has had experience with several 44 MB drives from Ehman, Mirror,
and MacTel. We had extremely bad experiences with Ehman both in terms of
problems with the software and problems with their technical support.
Mirror, on the other hand, was excellent. The prices for these drives
from these three mail order companies are now around $800, although MacTel
is the cheapest. We have not yet tested out the MacTel software, so I
can't report on that. Also note that the seek times for these drives
have been decreasing some in the last year from the high 20's to now the
low 20's."
-----------------------------------------------------
"At GSIA we use Bernoulli boxes (both IBM and MAC, 20Mb and 44Mb).
We've never had any problems with the 20Mb drives, but the 44Mb ones
were giving us problems. The problem was traced to the cartridges
(the older cartridges were design flawed) and after that was fixed,
we've had no problems.
...
These also take a system init. The boxes themself seem to run fairly
fast, though we've never broke this down to times."
----------
I have been using a pair of Relax 45mb drives for about a year now.
The drives themselves are fine, but their software is not very
satisfactory. I recently bought the two-drive box from APS - it
seems equally solid. APS told me to use either their driver or
Relax's on all my cartridges, and while I was mucking around, I
realized that I could use Silver Lining (from La Cie), which I have
been doing for several months now with great satisfaction.
---------------------------------------
You missed one, Microtech 42meg. We have had ours for a month and a
half. Believe me it has been thrashed about extensively, and it has
not failed at all. It is a Syqest system, the new one, and it really
works well.
I bought it as part of our backup system, and so far is flawless. The
unit was bought because of the competive pricing. They had a
University pricing that was very impressive. They also took a faxed
PO and shipped the next day. Not Bad.
There are two on campus, more to follow. I like it, and have no
qualms about recommending it to anybody. By the way, it came with
Norton's new Mac utility. That was a added bonus!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris, all of the drives that you mention use the SyQuest 45 meg. removable
mechanism. The only diff. will be in packaging and drivers.
My personal favorites are APS for price and service (their number is
1-800-233-7550). They also have a quite fan and a robust power supply.
My favorite driver is the one from MicroNet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am very happy with one I did not see on your list - the Bernouli box 45. It
comes in a single or double version, and there is software available (but I
have not seen it) to read bernouli cartiridges written on a PC.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
stay away from MacProducts. They have the worst customer support/delivery
record of any mail order place on the planet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard (there was an ongoing discussion of this a while back) that
the ehman software has some kind of problems, but silverlining software
that comes with the lacie drive is much better (good for hard disks to, that's
what i use). i think it had something to do with an init needed to mount
the drive if a cartridge was inserted after boot. like with a floppy, i guess
but the scsi code is more hard drive oriented. anyway, check into it or look
for old postings (it was this year, perhaps during march).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been using one at work for a week now. It's from ClubMac and I'm very
happy with it especially since there is not much information about them
regarding whether cartridges from one vendor can be used in that from another.
I still haven't tested that out yet but the ClubMac drive comes in a UniMac
case which is plastic (better than metal cases such as HDI, in my opinion)
and with UniMac StorWare software which is alright (i.e., better than most).
However, $599 from HDI is hard to beat but I'd rather spend a little more
and get a better case (perhaps synonymous with more reliable electronics)
for $50 more from Ehman or ClubMac. Then again, I'm not an expert having only
this one drive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is inresponse to the questions about syquest
drives. I purchased a Microtech r45 drive about 8 months
ago and am very happy with it. The drive has had no problems,
is reasonable fast and quiet. I highly recommend Microtech
for their service, friendly attitude and their eductaional
discounts. If you call them directly and ask for an educational
price they will help you out. I saved several hundred dollars this
way. I Understand that they will be dropping these drives for
a Ricoh mechanism. they are still advertising the syquest drives
and you can probally get a great deal now.
----------
[The following is the file of information I refered to. It has been slightly
edited for the sake of space.
-- Chris]
March 1990
I recently did some research on removables prior to purchasing one. First of
all, there are two primary sources of removables in the 40MB range: the
Bernoulli system from IOMega, and the Syquest drives from various companies.
Most of my research was restricted to the Syquest drives, since I saw
immediately that the Bernoulli's were rather expensive and reputed to be
slower than the newer Syquests.
The Syquest drives are made by Syquest, but packaged with power supply,
cables, fan, etc. by a miriad of other companies. The drive mechanism and
the cartridges are the same, but the difference comes in the packaging,
software included, warranty, etc. The cartridges each hold about 42 or 42.5
MB when formatted (though they are advertised as anything from 40 to 45 Meg).
Taking into account all that was said to me about these drive, there are a
certain number of things I would suggest looking into before buying one of
these beasts.
1. COST - of course. This is a prime consideration for most of us. They
seem to range from the low $700's (e.g. Ehman, Mirror Tech, DPI) up to
around $1500. [Now they start in the low $600's or so -- Chris]
The cartridges also differ some in price from different vendors, but
I believe that they are all identical. (Anyone want to confirm that?)
If so, then one could purchase the cartridges from a cheaper source.
Check also for special discounts; some manufacturers (e.g. MicroTech
and DPI) will give a discount if you are a member of a users group
and request the users-group price.
2. SPEED - Syquest recently (last 6 months?) came out with a faster and
more reliable (at least they say so . . . time will tell) drive. This
is important because some vendors are still packaging and selling the
older drives.
i) 25ms "average" access time, 12000 hrs MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure)
ii) 20ms "average" access time, 30000 hrs MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure)
How does one tell the difference? Well one person said that the older
version has red and green lights on the front and the newer orange and
green (mine is supposed to be the newer and has orange and green); but
the only way to really check is by examining the ROM (don't ask me how).
Ask the vendor which version they are selling. If they don't know, and
especially if they can't find out for you, be suspicious.
For those who wonder really how fast a 20ms access time is . . . my
Syquest takes about 50% longer to duplicate a 3MB file than my internal
Apple (Quantum) 80Meg drive does; the Syquest duplicates the 3MB file
in the same amount of time it takes to duplicate a 140K file on a floppy.
3. WARRANTY - some of the manufacturers offer one-year warranties, some
offer two year. Also, some have 30 day money-back guaranties. Many also
have a one-year warranty on the cartridges. In addition, some vendors
(e.g. Mirror Technologies) offer "replacement" programs where if your
drive goes bad, you can call them, they'll send another drive overnite
(or second day) and you send your defective drive back in the same box;
they repare it and return it to you, and you send back the "replacement",
(and I think that they pay for the shipping) -- this is for a reasonable
fee of $20/yr (for Mirror Tech).
4. TERMINATION - The last device on the SCSI port must be terminated
(as I understand it, that means grounding the end of the SCSI line), so
the Syquest drive has an internal terminator. For most of these devices,
the syquest has to be turned on if you want to use your internal hard
drive -- I am finding this to be somewhat annoying, since I use my
Syquest primarily as a backup system and for holding large data files
for my research for which I have no room on my internal hard drive and
therefore would like to leave the beast turned off when I'm not going to
be using it (there has been some discussion on c.s.m.h about how to get
around this termination problem). I have read (but have not confirmed)
that MicroTech removes the internal Syquest terminator and adds an
external one (that can be removed if the drive is not the last in the
SCSI chain). Most seem to allow physically doing what MicroTech does
(removing the internal and adding an external terminator, purchased at
an electronics store), but a notable exception (as I have been read) is
LaCie's Cirrus, which can only be terminated with the power on.
5. SCSI ADDRESS - Each device on a SCSI chain has an address. Some of the
drives have external pushbuttons to change the drive's SCSI address.
This would be particularly helpful if one was using the drive on several
Macs, each with several SCSI devices.
6. SOFTWARE - each manufacturer includes its own software with the drive.
Most include formatting software (to format new cartridges) and
software to check for (and sometimes block out) bad sectors on a
cartridge. Some also include software for partitioning disks into
multiple volumes and some to add password protection to disks. If you
purchase a cartridge, most vendors also include some shareware programs
(I got 10 Meg on mine).
CAUTION - there have been several reports that the formatting software
from some companies (Ehman was noted) is incompatible with the IIci and
may conflict with Apple's CD-ROM INIT, though it is possible that the
software has been updated to relieve this problem.
7. EXTRAS - some vendor's packaging also includes surge protectors on the
input power line, additional power outlets on the drive (presumably to
plug your Mac into a surge-protected outlet).
8. FAN - one issue that was mentioned a number of times was that the
cooling fan on some of the drives (especially Ehman/Cutting Edge) were
rather noisy, though I haven't seen (or heard) most of these drives,
so I cannot comment on that.
9. POWER SUPPLY - This is important also, but I haven't the foggiest how to
determine what defines a "good" power supply.
Well, that is about all that I can think of right now. I ended up buying
a Syquest from Mirror Technologies, due to a number of factors (low cost,
faster version, 2 year warranty, etc.), and so far have been quite pleased
with it. I got 5 cartridges, so I am ecstatic to have over 200MB in storage
for under $1300, with the chance of expanding yet again according to my
future needs.
If I was going to start again with this purchase, I think I would choose the
MicroTech (partly because there were more reports praising this one than
any of the other Syquests, but also, and perhaps more importantly now, is
that MicroTech packages things so that the terminator is external and
(supposedly, anyway) you don't have to have the Syquest on to use an internal
hard drive) if I was ignoring price. If the reports of lower cost on the
MicroTech's are true (<$900), then it would be tempting; if not, then I think
I would stick with the Mirror Technologies, assuming I could rig the external
termination correctly (that's my next project).
I do have a (somewhat) condensed copy of all of the responses I got about
this and would be happy to make that available to anyone who wants it
(probably through e-mail since it is rather long, unless there is an
overwhelming demand for it, in which case I will post that to info-mac
as well).
Hope this helps anyone else thinking about buying a syquest.
Erik A. Johnson, Graduate Student \ Internet: johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
Aeronautical & Astronautical Engineering \
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign \
P.S. Don't hold me to any of the data I have listed here. Much of what I
have said has come from other people on the net and e-mail that I got
in answer to my queries. The rest has come from talking to sales rep's
at some of the manufacturers and from reading various advertisements
and articles in MacWorld, MacUser, and MacWeek. So the opinions
expressed herein are exactly that -- opinions!
This is a list of companies that package the Syquest drives. I don't claim
that it is complete, but I hope I haven't left any out. Don't take any of
this as gospel! Before you buy, talk to the manufacturer to confirm all of
the data you have about the particular device.
*******************************************************************************
LaCie, Ltd. Name: Cirrus 45
16285 SW 85th, Bldg 306 Speed: 20ms
Tigard, OR 97224 Warranty: 1 yr
(800) 999-0143 Cost: $800; $899 w/one cartridge
(503) 684-0143 Cost/Cartridge: $129
Additional Costs: add 3% for Visa, 10% for rush
Software: Silverlining software (formatting,
diagnostic, map out bad sectors,
etc.); Silverserver software
Comments: Sales staff was neither very helpful nor prompt for me, but
some others haven't had that problem.
The Silverlining software is reputed to be some of the best
software around for removables (possibly including some
disk optimization (unfragmenting files) software, but I did not
have this confirmed). The drive is also reputed to be one of
the quietest on the market and reputed to be one of the fastest
due to "low level drivers".
Mass Microsystems Name: Datapack 45MB
550 Del Rey Ave Speed: 20ms
Sunnyvale, CA 94068 Warranty: ?
(800) 522-7979 Cost: $1500 (retail);
(408) 522-1200 $1185 from Programs Plus
Cost/Cartridge: $125 from Programs Plus
Software: Volume partitioning and protection
software, plus a bunch of
shareware and SUMII by Symantec
Extras: two external power outlets; surge
protector; shareware;
SUMII by Symantec
Comments: there were several strong praises of this drive
Ehman Name: Removable 45MB
Speed: 20ms
Evanston, Wyoming Warranty: 2 yr (1 yr on cartridges)
(800) 257-1666 Cost: $749
Cost/Cartridge: $99
Software: ?
Extras: removable SCSI terminators
Comments: This drive is also sold under the name of "Cutting Edge" when
sold through a distributer (e.g. MacWarehouse, MacConnection --
note that I found that the prices direct from Ehman were better
than throught the distributers by up to $80 for the mechanism
and $15/cartridge).
There have also been comments suggesting that the Ehman drives
have the cheapest power supplies and fans, the latter being
rather noisy.
One report of software incompatibilities with the Mac IIci;
also a report of a conflict with Apple's CD-ROM INIT.
Dolphin System Technology Name: Flipper 44MB
1701 E. Edinger Ave., Bldg G Speed: 25ms (though they expect 20ms soon)
Santa Ana, CA 92705 Warranty: ?
(714) 558-3220 Cost: $879 from MacWarehouse
Cost/Cartridge:
Software: installer software
Extras: shareware
Peripheral Land, Inc. Name: Infinity Turbo 40
47800 Westinghouse Dr. Speed: ?
Fremont, CA 94538 Warranty: ?
(800) 288-8754 Cost: $1098 from MacWarehouse;
(415) 657-2211 $999 from MacLand (25ms)
AppleLink: D0495 Cost/Cartridge: $109 from Programs Plus
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Comments: One person came out screaming about this -- a dealer in his
town had every one they've sold in the last 6 months come
back because of problems. On the other hand, a dealer in
Champaign, IL has had one in their service department and
have loved it.
Mirror Technologies Name: RM42
2644 Patton Rd Speed: 20ms
Roseville, MN 55113 Warranty: 2 yr (1 yr on cartridges)
(800) 654-5294 Cost: $747
(612) 633-4450 Cost/Cartridge: $99 ($94 for 3-10, $91 for >10)
Tech support: Additional Costs: $35 UPS or $60 overnight
(612) 633-2105 Software: initialization software
Extras: shareware; external pushbutton
SCSI address selection
Comments: Quite helpful sales staff; great results so far, but
would be nice if externally terminated
MicroTech International Name: R45 Removable
158 Commerce St Speed: "faster access time" (<==>20ms?)
East Haven, CT 06512 Warranty: 2 yr
(800) 325-1895 Cost: $1099 (but reports of under $900?)
Cost/Cartridge: $99
Software: ?
Extras: one 50-50 SCSI cable,
one 25-50 SCSI cable, cartridge,
terminator
Comments: many strong praises of this drive;
possible discount for users group members
DPI Name: DPI44
40 Corning Ave Speed: 20ms
Milpitas, CA 95035 Warranty: 2 yr
(800) 825-1850 Cost: $739 with one cartridge;
(408) 945-1850 $899 with 3 cartridges
Cost/Cartridge: $79
Additional Costs: $10 with credit card; $30 overnite
Software: formatting software
Extras:
Comments: possible discount for users group members
MacZone Name: Complete Syquest drive
Speed: ?
Warranty: 2 yr; 30day money-back guarantee
(800) 248-0800 Cost: $803
Cost/Cartridge: $89
Additional Costs: $3 overnite
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Comments: MacZone used to sell syquest drives from other companies (e.g.
Dolphin's Flipper and PLI's Infinity Turbo 40) but now they
purchase their own syquest mechanisms and add the case, cables,
etc.
My biggest concern here is what happens when it breaks? MacZone
is not really a "manufacturer" to whom one could presumably
return a broken device to be repared. They are primarily an
order-by-phone distributer.
Bay Microsystems, Inc. Name: 44 Repack
210 Columbus Ave., #108 Speed: ?
San Francisco, CA 94133 Warranty: ?
(415) 563-8392 Cost: $1149 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $108
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Crate Technology Name: ExpandaCrate
6850 Vineland Speed: ?
North Hollywood, CA 91605 Warranty: ?
(818) 766-4001 Cost: $1525 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $127 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
FWB, Inc. Name: hammerDisk44
2040 Polk St., #215 Speed: ?
San Francisco, CA 94109 Warranty: ?
(415) 474-8055 Cost: $1895 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $149 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Info Technologies Drives, Inc. Name: Info42R
950 Taraval St. Speed: ?
San Francisco, CA 94116 Warranty: ?
(415) 753-1222 Cost: $1200 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $125 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
MacProducts USA Name: Magic 45
8303 Mopac Expressway, #218 Speed: ?
Austin, TX 78759 Warranty: ?
(800) 622-7627 Cost: $1495 (retail);
(512) 343-9441 Cost/Cartridge: $149 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
MicroNet Technology, Inc. Name: Micro/Removable 45
13765-A Alton Parkway Speed: ?
Irvine, CA 92718 Warranty: ?
(714) 837-6033 Cost: $1645 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $169 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Relax Technologies Name: Mobile 42 Plus
3101 Whipple Rd., #22 Speed: ?
Union City, CA 94587 Warranty: ?
(800) 848-1313 Cost: $1695 (retail);
(415) 471-6112 Cost/Cartridge: $129 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Alliance Peripheral Systems Name: ?
P.O. Box 32982 Speed: ?
637 W. 57th Terrace Warranty: ?
Kansas City, MO 64111 Cost: $659
(800) 233-7550 Cost/Cartridge: $72.50
(816) 373-5800 Software: ?
Extras: ?
*******************************************************************************
--
-- Chris. (cycy@isl1.ri.cmu.edu)
"People make me pro-nuclear." -- Margarette Smith