gelphman@adobe.COM (David Gelphman) (07/28/90)
I've had the following problem on my 1987 (vintage) Mac II: Upon initial power up, about 1/2 the time the Mac doesn't seem to recognize the keyboard. I start up in MultiFinder with a few startup apps and once it boots all the way up no characters can be entered from the keyboard. If I reboot without power cycling (Restart from the Finder menu), it almost always comes up OK the second time. The other 1/2 of the time upon cold power up, it comes up OK. I haven't really done too much to figure out the problem. I haven't reinstalled the system, removed inits, etc. It sure seems unlikely to me that it is a software problem but is more likely a hardware problem. I have fiddled with the ADB cables, etc. in order to see if that is the problem. One interesting bit of information is that one time when the system was in the state that it wouldn't recognize the keyboard I pulled up keycaps and found that the system thought the command key was being held down. Typing a letter from the keyboard to attempt to use a command key equivalent did NOT work. I have never seen that particular state any other time, most of the time the system didn't think any keys were down when I pulled down keycaps. I'm sure there are plenty of debugging things I could do: borrow a keyboard from work, etc. etc. I just thought someone else might have seen the problem and know a fix. David
roland@dna.lth.se (Roland Mansson) (08/04/90)
In article <4614@adobe.UUCP> gelphman@adobe.UUCP (David Gelphman) writes: >Upon initial power up, about 1/2 the time the Mac doesn't seem to recognize >the keyboard. I start up in MultiFinder with a few startup apps and once it >boots all the way up no characters can be entered from the keyboard. >If I reboot without power cycling (Restart from the Finder menu), it almost >always comes up OK the second time. > The other 1/2 of the time upon cold power up, it comes up OK. I've excatly the same problem, also with a MacII. I use ADBProbe (a cdev) to reset the ADB bus. It works, but is of course a little bit inconvinient... -- Roland Mansson, Lund University Computing Center, Box 783, S220 07 Lund, Sweden Phone: +46-46107436 Fax: +46-46138225 Bitnet: roland_m@seldc52 Internet: roland.mansson@ldc.lu.se or roland.mansson%ldc.lu.se@uunet.uu.net UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!sunic!ldc.lu.se!roland.mansson AppleLink: SW0022
schaerer@gorgo.ifi.unizh.ch (08/14/90)
[David Gelphman and Roland Mansson write that their Mac II's often don't recognize the keyboard at startup. Roland writes that resetting the ADB bus helps.] [Sorry I'm late with my followup, our mail/news system was down.] Please say more about your environment, maybe we can reconstruct this puzzle. I have the same annoying problem on a Mac II, but, as far as I can remember, *only since I installed System 6.0.5*. I haven't tried to reinstall 6.0.4 yet. I use SilverLining 5.2, Tops 2.1, Suitcase II 1.2.6, ATM 1.01, and some more stuff. The problem remained when I removed everything except Suitcase and Tops. Resetting the ADB bus with a tool ADBProbe is not practical for me, because I need the keyboard for entering a password before I can do anything else. Thanks for any ideas. Daniel Schaerer, University of Zurich/Switzerland schaerer@ifi.unizh.ch
gelphman@adobe.COM (David Gelphman) (08/14/90)
In article <1990Aug13.192343.5613@gorgo.ifi.unizh.ch> Daniel Schaerer <schaerer@ifi.unizh.ch> writes: >[David Gelphman and Roland Mansson write that their Mac II's often don't >recognize the keyboard at startup. Roland writes that resetting the ADB bus >helps.] [Sorry I'm late with my followup, our mail/news system was down.] > >Please say more about your environment, maybe we can reconstruct this puzzle. >I have the same annoying problem on a Mac II, but, as far as I can remember, >*only since I installed System 6.0.5*. I haven't tried to reinstall 6.0.4 yet. After seeing the message from Roland Mansson I got a copy of the ADB probe cdev and indeed resetting the bus does solve the problem. Perhaps some ADB sleuth'ers out there can help. I find that when the keyboard is locked up and I bring up the ADB Probe cdev that the system thinks there are 3 ADB devices, ID 0,2,3. When the keyboard is locked out the two of the devices were listed as Type 1, and the 3rd was listed as Type 0. After using the Reset function, I again had devices ID 0,2,3 but now instead of two devices with ID =1, one of the devices which had ID 1 now had ID=2 so there were no ID 'conflicts'. I took a peek at IM Vol V and didn't really see much about the Type of device. Admittedly I didn't spend much time. I was surprised to see 3 devices since I only have an extended keyboard and a mouse but I suppose ADB may be like SCSI and the Mac itself may be a device. More information about my system: vintage Mac II, A Roms, 5 Megs of memory, 68851 PMMU chip installed, extended keyboard, standard Apple mouse, 8 bit Apple video card, Color Monitor, internal Apple 40 Meg HD, external Micropolis 140 Meg HD, Apple tilt and swivel monitor stand (sorry I couldn't resist), modem and appletalk printer hooked up. Software: System 6.0.5 with ~15 inits. I don't believe the inits have much to do with this problem but I'm sure somebody will prove me wrong. One more question: the ADB probe Reset feature seems to solve the problem. In looking at the ADB chapter in IM I noted there is an ADB Init procedure available in ROM. It would be easy to write an INIT which just executed this proc but I figure there is probably more to it than this? Ideas? Thanks for any help, David
taylor@cernvax.UUCP (bruce taylor) (08/15/90)
[In the referenced articles David Gelphman, Roland Mansson and Daniel Schaerer describe the problem of a Mac II failing to recognize its keyboard after about 50% of startups]. I have a Mac II which also exhibits this behaviour. It also started around the time I installed 6.0.5, but I would have changed plenty other things the same day. I don't have the ADBProbe cdev (where do I get that, folks?) so I ran the ADBLister application I found on the Discy Business CD. This gives the following repeatable result: After an OK startup - Mouse Device = 2; Device type = 1 ADB Address = 3; Original Address = 3 Apple Extended KeyBoard Right... Device = 1; Device type = 2 ADB Address = 2; Original Address = 2 After a startup with keyboard dead - Apple Standard Keyboard Hmm... Device = 2; Device type = 1 ADB Address = 2; Original Address = 2 Mouse Device = 1; Device type = 1 ADB Address = 3; Original Address = 3 The keyboard is the extended model. This Mac II has B ROMs. I don't have David's fancy monitor stand but I do have a nice blue mousepad :-) Bruce
magorian@umd5.umd.edu (Dan Magorian) (08/16/90)
[In the referenced articles David Gelphman, Roland Mansson and Daniel Schaerer describe the problem of a Mac II failing to recognize its keyboard after about 50% of startups]. I had this problem as well, numerous times. Last night I noticed that both machines doing it were attempting to boot first from an external disk that once had a system folder on it (boot blocks set), failing, and switching to the internal disk with the right blessed folder. When I set the Set Startup CDEV to the right disk, and stopped the partial switch booting, the problem stopped (so far). Interestingly, the ex-System Folder was System 7. Could this be other people's problem as well? -- Dan Magorian (301) 405-3004 Computer Science Center magorian@ni.umd.edu University of Maryland magorian@umdd.bitnet College Park, MD 20742-2411 Applelink: A0190
taylor@cernvax.UUCP (bruce taylor) (08/16/90)
In article <7116@umd5.umd.edu> magorian@umd5.umd.edu (Dan Magorian) writes: >[In the referenced articles David Gelphman, Roland Mansson and Daniel > Schaerer describe the problem of a Mac II failing to recognize its > keyboard after about 50% of startups]. > >I had this problem as well, numerous times. Last night I noticed that both >machines doing it were attempting to boot first from an external disk that >once had a system folder on it (boot blocks set), failing, and switching >to the internal disk with the right blessed folder. When I set the Set >Startup CDEV to the right disk, and stopped the partial switch booting, the >problem stopped (so far). Interestingly, the ex-System Folder was System 7. >Could this be other people's problem as well? Good sleuthing, Dan. In my case the Startup CDEV was set correctly to an internal HD40, but an external HD80 still carried a Finder Startup file left over from the days when it had its own System. Trashing the superfluous file cured the keyboard problem. Although the file must have been on the HD80 for a long time, it does appear that the problem only manifested itself when the HD40 System Software was updated to 6.0.5. Many thanks, Bruce Taylor
tecot@momenta (Ed Tecot) (08/17/90)
taylor@cernvax.UUCP (bruce taylor) writes: >After an OK startup - > Mouse > Device = 2; Device type = 1 > ADB Address = 3; Original Address = 3 > Apple Extended KeyBoard Right... > Device = 1; Device type = 2 > ADB Address = 2; Original Address = 2 >After a startup with keyboard dead - > Apple Standard Keyboard Hmm... > Device = 2; Device type = 1 > ADB Address = 2; Original Address = 2 > Mouse > Device = 1; Device type = 1 > ADB Address = 3; Original Address = 3 What's going on here is that your keyboard failed to respond to a query when the machine was booted. Apparently, there's a faulty connection between the keyboard and the machine. The next time this happens, 1) Try disconnecting and reconnecting the keyboard. and if that fails 2) Try a different keyboard. Note that your LEDs won't work until you reboot, so don't use that as a way to test the keyboard. If 1) solves your problem, you might want to check your cables. Look at the pins, and if possible, swap with someone for a while. If 2) solves your problem - you may have a less-than-perfect keyboard. _emt
mosemann@hoss.unl.edu (Russell Mosemann) (08/19/90)
In <1990Aug16.200910.22861@momenta> tecot@momenta (Ed Tecot) writes: [Original problem deleted] >What's going on here is that your keyboard failed to respond to a query >when the machine was booted. Apparently, there's a faulty connection >between the keyboard and the machine. The next time this happens, >1) Try disconnecting and reconnecting the keyboard. > and if that fails [Rest deleted] Of course, disconnect and reconnect after the power is shut off. Otherwise you run the risk of frying your ADB chip, something a little more serious than an occassional unrecognized keyboard. Russell mosemann@hoss.unl.edu uunet!hoss.unl.edu!mosemann