ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert) (09/12/90)
This is the story of how I failed to re-fill a DeskWriter ink cartridge. I'm telling it in hopes of providing a how-not-to example for others, and perhaps getting some tips in where I went wrong for those who have successfully re-filling the cartridges. I think my first mistake was in trying to refill with a different color ink. In particular, I wanted red. The ink I bought was Schaffer Script ink, which is a nice bright red. (Also comes in green and blue.) The reason red was a bad choice is that the inside of the cartridges appears to be filled with a foam of some sort. This is probably good in that it lets the ink wick into the sprayers and filters out junk, but in my case it was bad because it meant that there was a lot of black residue in the pad. Because of this, the bright red ink came out a sort of dull red color. It wasn't very pretty, but it defintely wasn't black. The procedure I used to refill the cartridge was to drill a small hole in the curved part of the green top, and put the ink in that way. I didn't have an eyedropper handy, so I used a small straw and the finger-over-the-top method to put the ink in. It was slow, but it still didn't take more than 10 minutes to fill the cartridge. While I was filling it, ink was leaking out through the jet holes at a pretty good rate. I was doing my work on top of some paper towels, which (I thought) were helping the ink wick out. To stop this, I held the cartridge above the towels for a little while. This didn't stop the flow of ink out the holes. I figure the real cartridge must be sealed with only a very small hole at the top to help keep the ink from leaking out so fast... so I put a piece of tape over the top to close the hole, and this did, eventually, stop the flow of ink out the jet holes. That done, I tried the cartridge. I did get reddish printing for a couple of pages, and it did seem like the ink was about as water-soluable as the original cartridge. After a couple of pages, thought, the ink started coming out too fast, or otherwise making drops and leaking, and I ended up with little puddles of ink at the start of each pass of the print head, with no actual printing. Taking the cartridge out and wiping the printing end stopped the flow of ink, but a few lines of print later the same thing started happening again. (Perhaps the ink isn't "thick" enough?) After a couple more unsuccessful attempts to seal the top tighter or otherwise stop the too-rapid flow of ink, I gave up and dumped the whole mess in the trash, inserting a new (black) cartridge, which worked fine. Even this failed attempt didn't seem cause any harm to the printer. All the ink ended up on the paper, and none in any visible printer parts. I know this has successfully been done. (In black and green, at least. Did anyone get red to work?) What was causing the ink to flow too fast? When the next cartridge runs out, I'm definitely going to try it again, with a darker ink. For the next attempt, can anyone recommend ink brands or improved re-fill methods? Actually, if HP's waterproof ink is out soon, maybe I won't try the refill. Does anyone (even HP) make cartridges in colors other than black? The fact that the label on the cartridge has a little black dot seems to indicate that there are other options available. (I assume HP has the right ink, since they make the paint jet series.) --Bob
dmwr@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU (Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On) (09/12/90)
In article <12343@arisia.Xerox.COM> ebert@arisia.UUCP (Robert Ebert) writes: >I know this has successfully been done. (In black and green, at least. >Did anyone get red to work?) What was causing the ink to flow too fast? > >When the next cartridge runs out, I'm definitely going to try it again, >with a darker ink. For the next attempt, can anyone recommend ink brands >or improved re-fill methods? Actually, if HP's waterproof ink is out soon, >maybe I won't try the refill. > >Does anyone (even HP) make cartridges in colors other than black? The fact >that the label on the cartridge has a little black dot seems to indicate that >there are other options available. (I assume HP has the right ink, since >they make the paint jet series.) > > --Bob I can't really comment on the red ink, but my HP service guy here in Boston tells me that those refills dry out more quickly than the ink that HP uses. Because of this, my HP guy told me not to use the ink or it would void my warrenty. Any comments on this from netland? The service rep said that the refill ink can ruin the printing mechanism if used repeatedly. Damian /----------------------------------------------------------------/ / Damian Roskill / Specular International, Inc. / / dmwr@gnu.ai.mit.edu / Makers of Infini-D / / my opinions are my own.... / "Party for your right to fight" / /----------------------------------------------------------------/
ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert) (09/13/90)
In article <9009120508.AA04589@gnu.AI.MIT.EDU> dmwr@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU (Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On) writes: > >I can't really comment on the red ink, but my HP service guy here in >Boston tells me that those refills dry out more quickly than the ink >that HP uses. Because of this, my HP guy told me not to use the ink >or it would void my warrenty. Any comments on this from netland? The >service rep said that the refill ink can ruin the printing mechanism >if used repeatedly. Regarding "can ruin the printing mechanism." That's probably true, but then, you THROW THE PRINTING MECHANISM AWAY every time you change cartridges. The ink never touches any part of the printer itself, except possibly the wiper station at the far right. Can anyone comment on the wiper station construction? Even when my failed cartridge was leaking at (relatively) enormous volumes, nothing appeared to happen to the wiper station. I suggest that it must be capable of handling large amouts of ink, since priming the cartridge is supposed to flush a lot of ink through the cartridge. (Also, knowing the way HP builds things, I would suspect that you could pour an entire bottle through the wiper station and not damage it.) So, your service rep is most likely telling you about the damage in order to get you to buy refill cartridges at $18 each instead of just ink at $1.00/refill. HP probably suggest replacing the cartridge each time to keep up their (really amazing) time between failure numbers. That is, if they said you could refilly the cartridges, or even sold the ink in bulk, the "printing mechanism" (aka ink cartridge) would eventually fail and people would start to bitch about poor print quality. We know that we can refill it until it starts to go bad, THEN throw it away and replace the "printing mechanism" (for $18.00). Anyway, I got a bunch of email about better ways to fill the cartridges, all of them said I should just use a syringe and squirt the ink through the "air hole" at the top. No one said anything about colored ink, though. What is it, isn't anyone else interested in very-low-volume highlight color printing? --Bob
minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) (09/13/90)
> Anyway, I got a bunch of email about better ways to fill the cartridges, > all of them said I should just use a syringe and squirt the ink through > the "air hole" at the top. No one said anything about colored ink, though. > > What is it, isn't anyone else interested in very-low-volume highlight > color printing? I'm no HP guru (I don't even have a DeskWriter, but I wish I did) but have you considered loading it up with water or a mild solvent and letting it clean itself out a little bit THEN filling it with red ink? -- |_ /| | Robert Minich |"If, one day, all arguments were |\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University|suddenly resolved, a new topic |=(___)= | minich@a.cs.okstate.edu |would soon arise on which to | U | - Ackphtth |to disagree." "No it wouldn't."
denbeste@bgsuvax.UUCP (William C. DenBesten) (09/13/90)
From article <12343@arisia.Xerox.COM>, by ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert): I created a green cartridge, and have used it for about 500-1000 pages. > The reason red was a bad choice is that the inside of the cartridges > appears to be filled with a foam of some sort. This is probably good in > that it lets the ink wick into the sprayers and filters out junk, but in > my case it was bad because it meant that there was a lot of black residue > in the pad. Because of this, the bright red ink came out a sort of dull > red color. It wasn't very pretty, but it defintely wasn't black. When I put my green ink in, it started out black, and got lighter as time went by. After about 200 pages or so, it was the color of the ink that I used. > While I was filling it, ink was leaking out > through the jet holes at a pretty good rate. I was doing my work on top of > some paper towels, which (I thought) were helping the ink wick out. I ran into the same problem. As soon as this started happening, I stopped filling. I have since discovered that you can put about 10ml in at a time. I suspect that the ink that HP uses is marginally thicker than Skrip ink (which both of use used). This causes the weight of the ink in the cartridge to force ink through the closed jets. If we found a mildly thicker ink, it may work better. My solution was to only fill the cartridge about 50% (by weight). > I ended up with little puddles of ink at the start of each pass of the > print head, with no actual printing. I suspect that what happened to you was that the ink that drained out caused damage to the jets. Mine prints fine. I do find that if I don't use the cartridge for about a week, I have to 'prime' the cartridge with a wet kleenex. > When the next cartridge runs out, I'm definitely going to try it again, > with a darker ink. For the next attempt, can anyone recommend ink brands > or improved re-fill methods? Actually, if HP's waterproof ink is out soon, > maybe I won't try the refill. I use Shaffert Skrip ink, like you do. I used green, and I am going to try blue next. Both appear to have the same consistency, which appears to be about the same as water. I found a individual that is diabetic. I convinced her to give me a syringe, which I intend to use to try and fill my cartridge next time, rather than drilling a hole. (BTW, it turns out that syringes are a PRESCRIPTION item in the wonderful state of Ohio. Surpised me. No wonder there are problems with drug users sharing needles.) > Does anyone (even HP) make cartridges in colors other than black? I have seen an ad in the back of {macweek,macuser,macworld} for a place that fills carts (about $15.00 - too expensive, IMHO). They also fill with colors. -- William C. DenBesten is denbeste@bgsu.edu or denbesten@bgsuopie.bitnet
jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Jefferson ) (09/13/90)
>I'm no HP guru (I don't even have a DeskWriter, but I wish I did) but have you >considered loading it up with water or a mild solvent and letting it clean >itself out a little bit THEN filling it with red ink? Well, my curiosity finally got the best of me. I just had to open the top on one of these things. (with a hammer :-) Sure enough there is a sponge inside, with suprisingly little residual ink remaining. The ink is water soluable right? I rinsed the sponge under warm water and it is as clean as new. I think if you tried to flush the cartridge without opening it you would never get the sponge to dry properly. Also, the vent hole is just a hole. I dont think that having a bigger hole would hurt anything. If your ink runs too fast, you need a more viscous ink. -george
yuan@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Yuan 'Hacker' Chang) (09/14/90)
In article <29481@netnews.upenn.edu> jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Jefferson ) writes:
-Well, my curiosity finally got the best of me. I just had to open
-the top on one of these things. (with a hammer :-)
-
-Sure enough there is a sponge inside, with suprisingly little
-residual ink remaining.
-The ink is water soluable right? I rinsed the sponge under warm water
-and it is as clean as new. I think if you tried to flush the cartridge
-without opening it you would never get the sponge to dry properly.
Notice how hard and tough the sponge is? Do you suppose a sponge
in this state will really hold a lot of ink? The think doesn't really hold
much water either. I tried putting alcohol on the sponge, and the sponge
felt like, well, sponge. My guess is that there's a little bit of alcohol
in the HP ink. As the ink starts seeping to the bottom, the lack of
alcohol causes the sponge to harden at the top, and thereby creating a
better barrier against air. So my refill consists of 95% Parker `Quink'
plus 5% isopropyl (Rubbing alcohol). I suppose ethanol might work, but I
have no idea what the denaturing agent might do to the printhead.
--
Yuan Chang "What can go wrong, did"
UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!yuan
InterNet: yuan@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu "Wouldn't you like to
PhoneNet: (808) 737-6317 be an _A_m_i_g_o_i_d too?!?"emmayche@dhw68k.cts.com (Mark Hartman) (09/14/90)
dmwr@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU (Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On) writes: >I can't really comment on the red ink, but my HP service guy here in >Boston tells me that those refills dry out more quickly than the ink >that HP uses. Because of this, my HP guy told me not to use the ink >or it would void my warrenty. Any comments on this from netland? The >service rep said that the refill ink can ruin the printing mechanism >if used repeatedly. I've had very good luck with a company called BrightDot Solutions (PO Box 967, 12008 Serena Rd, Lakeside CA 92040; 619 561 9415), who will (a) re-ink an HP cartridge in black for $8.50; (b) convert a black HP cartridge to color and/or refill an already-converted cartridge for $18.00. They also sell color cartridges (they supply the plastic) for $32.00. They pay shipping, and accept MC and VISA. They also have discounts for quantities over 5. They told me in a telephone conversation that their ink meets HP standards, and they have had no trouble with warranty-related issues. For what it's worth... -- ------------ Mark Hartman uucp: ...{spsd,zardoz,felix}!dhw68k!emmayche Internet:emmayche@dhw68k.cts.com CompuServe: >internet:emmayche@dhw68k.cts.com Applelink: N1083
clg@guardian.cs.psu.edu (Craig Lee Gruneberg) (09/14/90)
In article <12366@arisia.Xerox.COM> ebert@arisia.UUCP (Robert Ebert) writes: >In article <9009120508.AA04589@gnu.AI.MIT.EDU> dmwr@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU (Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On) writes: Text deleted.... >Can anyone comment on the >wiper station construction? Even when my failed cartridge was leaking >at (relatively) enormous volumes, nothing appeared to happen to the wiper >station. I suggest that it must be capable of handling large amouts of >ink, since priming the cartridge is supposed to flush a lot of ink through >the cartridge. (Also, knowing the way HP builds things, I would suspect >that you could pour an entire bottle through the wiper station and not >damage it.) Rumor has it the wiper station is constructed from waste off the Pamper's assembly line ;-}. -- Craig Lee Gruneberg [clg@cs.psu.edu]| 333 Whitmore Laboratory Penn State University | Department of Computer Science | Watch for Hubble repair University Park, PA 16802 | updates here....
bkuo@sal-sun75.usc.edu (Benjamin Kuo) (09/14/90)
At the risk of repeating someone (I'm about 25 articles behind...), don't mess with the cartridge in any way. Go to your local drugstore, and purchase a large syringe (I don't remember how many cc`s). Before you refill the cartridge with a strange color, take the syringe and fill it with water, inject the water into the sponge (easily done through the hole at the top of the cartridge), and suck it back out with the syringe several times. When you've done this about 20 times (or less, if you've really used out your ink) or more (if you haven't used enough...), get all the water out you can (of course), and inject the new ink with the same syringe... I've done this twice for a friend, and it has worked. An associate of mine has successfully refilled twelve cartridges using brown, red, blue, and is trying green (and looking for a good black...). He knows the exact cc's to use, but since he has no access to the net (and I just moved) someone else will have to figure that out. Just make sure the ink has small enough particles that you don't clog and destroy the cartridge... Benjamin Kuo