anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) (10/31/90)
In article <1990Oct30.075308.15261@world.std.com>, boris@world.std.com (Boris Levitin) writes... > ... especially considering that >the virtual part of that RAM will be unbearably slow (I've used Ready-Set-Go >with its down-your-throat VM facility, and I've tried Word's load-only-used- >portion-of-document thing, and as a result, I'm less excited about VM than >practically any other System 7.0 feature). Virtual memory doesn't have to be a dog (for at least 20 years I've been using systems that depend heavily on VM and still provide good performance), but for reasonable performance it requires both good algorithms and fast disk I/O. I strongly suspect that the complaints about it on the Mac are due to the lack of DMA on the SCSI port; this causes a major cpu hit every time the disk is accessed, as well as limiting the data transfer rate. Does anyone know why Apple insists on building machines with designs that probably aren't a problem for a strictly single-tasking system but are downright *stupid* for a multitasking system (which the Mac has been ever since multifinder was invented)? When the IIfx came out I had hopes that they'd finally woken up, but the new machines are right back to the apparent attitude of 'it doesn't matter how badly the machine is crippled as long as costs are cut by a few dollars'. Even the crummiest PC-clone offers DMA (not a great implementation, but still orders of magnitude better than what Apple offers) -- it's not very expensive. This is all very frustrating for me -- I need to buy a home system 'yesterday' but there's nothing reasonable out there. I can't stomach the idea of getting a PC (the Mac environment is just too far ahead), but Apple refuses to build decent hardware (and even if they did, we'd probably have to wait for system 17 or so before they actually made use of it). Dave [The above is my opinion only, I know of no-one else who would want it.]
greg@cti1.UUCP (Greg Fabian) (11/01/90)
anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) writes: >Does anyone know why Apple insists on building machines with designs that >probably aren't a problem for a strictly single-tasking system but are >downright *stupid* for a multitasking system (which the Mac has been ever since >multifinder was invented)? When the IIfx came out I had hopes that they'd >finally woken up, but the new machines are right back to the apparent attitude >of 'it doesn't matter how badly the machine is crippled as long as costs are >cut by a few dollars'. Even the crummiest PC-clone offers DMA (not a great >implementation, but still orders of magnitude better than what Apple offers) -- >it's not very expensive. I remember the Lisa I used about five years ago - I could have multiple windows open with multiple applications. Instead of closing an application to open another one, I could shrink the window, click a new application, and go right into it and leave the first window open. I could move between these open windows and click the mouse and resume the application. Kind of like an early X-windows. I believe the machine had only 1 MB RAM and it had a 10 MB hard disk with Lisa Calc, Lisa Draw, Lisa Write, etc. But the effect was better than multi-finder. I have to agree with Dave in that sometimes Apple seems to spend as much time going backwards as it does forwards. >This is all very frustrating for me -- I need to buy a home system 'yesterday' >but there's nothing reasonable out there. I can't stomach the idea of getting >a PC (the Mac environment is just too far ahead), but Apple refuses to build >decent hardware (and even if they did, we'd probably have to wait for system 17 >or so before they actually made use of it). The problem is, Dave, I think we are spoiled. We don't want a "home computer" - one where the manufacturer has made all of the configuration decisions for us. We want something with as much guts as the iron we have at work. Something we can expand so it doesn't get obsolete too quickly. Something that doesn't cost an arm, a leg, and a gonad. Apple doesn't have it yet. I don't know if anyone really does. Maybe a used VAX 750 for $2000?? -- Greg Fabian ////////////////////////////////////|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ CTI (703) 685-5437 | 2121 Crystal Drive | Life is a conspiracy of coincidences Suite 103 | - Me Arlington, DC 22202 greg@cti.com | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|////////////////////////////////////