rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ross Ward Comer) (10/24/90)
I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest 45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the drives bad? ross ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ross Comer | ARPA: rc3h@andrew.cmu.edu PO Box 262, CMU | Bitnet: rc3h@andrew.cmu.edu Pittsburgh, Pa. 15213 | UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!rc3h ------------------------------------------------------------------------
rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) (10/24/90)
In article <Yb98DTC00UhW42OUlK@andrew.cmu.edu> rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ross Ward Comer) writes: >I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the >last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the >drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest >45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the >drives bad? I've had one for 3 months which I purchased from APS. A SyQuest is a SyQuest however no matter whom you purchase it from. The only difference is the power supply and the formatter. I'm using SilverLining. I have 5 cartridges and have not had a single problem. 3 friends that have one have not had problems. The general talk on GEnie is good. No one with major problems. Some people on here have had problems but I've seen more message with problems with conventional drives more than SyQuest. I would recommend one. They are much nicer than conventional drives and is even faster than most (other than Quantum)
johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (10/25/90)
/* Written 12:54 pm Oct 23, 1990 by rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu */ > /* ---------- "Syquest Removables: Good or Bad?" ---------- */ > I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the > last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the > drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest > 45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the > drives bad? I haven't seen these reports (rumors?) in MacWeek, but if you want some general info about the syquests (about 6 months old), check out a summary available by anonymous ftp to sumex-aim.stanford.edu, in info-mac/report directory.
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (10/25/90)
In article <98@genco.uucp> rad@genco. (Bob Daniel) writes: >In article <Yb98DTC00UhW42OUlK@andrew.cmu.edu> rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ross Ward Comer) writes: >>Are there reputable dealers of Syquest >>45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the >>drives bad? > >A SyQuest is a SyQuest >however no matter whom you purchase it from. The only difference is the power >supply and the formatter. Well, that's almost (but not quite) accurate. One difference we've noted at BMUG has to do with the way the drive is set up in terms of cooling. Some drives will heat up the removable platters enough to keep your coffee warm for a while, if not fry an egg, and we think this factor has more to do with disk-related problems than any other. The unit we've had the best experience with is the DPI, which is very well cooled (it sits upright and has an effective fan and lots of vents). There may be other similarly constructed makes as well, but DPI is the one most of us recommend these days. John Heckendorn /\ BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.EDU A__A 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bmug@ucbgarne |()| Berkeley, CA 94709 Phone: (415) 549-2684 | |
scotth@rocco.labs.tek.com (Scott Herzinger) (10/26/90)
In article <98@genco.uucp> rad@genco.uucp (Bob Daniel) writes: > A SyQuest is a SyQuest however no matter whom you purchase it from. > The only difference is the power supply and the formatter. I'm interested in SyQuests and have heard that there are some (at least one?) vendors that provide caching versions. PLI is one, I think. They claim sub-Quantum access times for their Turbo SyQuest product. So, it seems that one of the following must be the case: There is more than one version of the drive from SyQuest, versions with or without cacheing. PLI has implemented a cache for their SyQuest product, so again, there are variations in SyQuest products available to end-users. PLI is trying to confuse buyers by stating the minimum access time in their ads instead of average access time. The ad I saw didn't qualify the access time spec. Anyone know more about this? Scott Herzinger scotth%crl.labs.tek.com@relay.cs.net Computer Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc. PO Box 500 MS 50-662, Beaverton, OR 97077
bjornl@milton.u.washington.edu (Bjorn Levidow) (10/26/90)
I've had a PLI infinity drive for 3 years now and I've had a number of problems with it, none of which were irreperable. First, the drive would just cut out in the middle of operation and hang my mac as soon as it tried to access the drive. If I got it back up befoe a disk access, I could remount it (Using SCSI tools INIT). I had to hit the drive quite hard on it's side to get it up again, though. I eventually sent it back to PLI who found nothing wrong with it and sent it back. It worked for 3 months and then exhibited the same behavior. I found that I could open up the drive, tighten all of the cable connections and press the chips and terminators into their sockets, the drive would work flawlessly for the next couple of months. That's where I am today, and because the drive is flakey, I don't keep anything vital on it. Hopes this sheds some light on the MacWeek articles.
blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) (10/26/90)
In article <98@genco.uucp> rad@genco. (Bob Daniel) writes: |In article <Yb98DTC00UhW42OUlK@andrew.cmu.edu> rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ross Ward Comer) writes: |>I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the |>last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the |>drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest |>45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the |>drives bad? | |I've had one for 3 months which I purchased from APS. A SyQuest is a SyQuest |however no matter whom you purchase it from. The only difference is the power |supply and the formatter. I've had persistent problems with a Syquest from Microtech. All Syquests are not the same incidentally -- Microtech, for one, removes the internal SCSI termination (which adds flexibility, but one reply to an earlier complaint from me turned up someone who claims that the external terminators were causing problems for him). My experience has been that about a month after I format a cartridge, it starts showing large numbers of bad blocks (100's). Seeks sometimes make an evil grinding noise. The drive (and cartridges) have been back to Microtech three times, they claim nothing is wrong, but they did finally replace the mechanism (which hasn't fixed the problem). Since they're right down the road, I'd be happy to beat on them further, but they clearly aren't going to do anything except run the existing diagnostics and tell me nothing is wrong (they apparently have no engineering capability themselves). Every time I call, their solution is to reformat the disk -- which works for another month. I noted an interesting remark by the president of Syquest, quoted in MacWeek, that half the drives they have had returned had nothing wrong with them. I suspect that what is going on here is that their diagnostics are simply not picking up the problems. A possible reason why there hasn't been a bigger outcry is that people have learned to live with this -- the disk isn't useless, it's just a nuisance. When it works, it's fine and it's pretty fast. But I'm not happy with the disk, or Microtech, or Syquest. Tom
Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr (Patrick Hayes) (10/30/90)
In article <26932@cs.yale.edu> blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) writes: >I noted an interesting remark by the president of Syquest, quoted in >MacWeek, that half the drives they have had returned had nothing wrong >with them. I suspect that what is going on here is that their >diagnostics are simply not picking up the problems. A possible reason >why there hasn't been a bigger outcry is that people have learned to >live with this -- the disk isn't useless, it's just a nuisance. Ahem, about half the problems I've ever seen concerning hard disk drives on the Mac have been traced to termination/cable problems, and I've supported quite a few macs... My anecdotal experience has shown me that the Syquests are just as solid as any other hard drive (other than the fact that the removable media is a lot easier to drop on the floor -- and even then they've been surprisingly robust). Pat -- +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Patrick Hayes | EMail : Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr | | BULL CEDIAG | or hayes@bull.fr | | 68, Route de Versailles | or ...!mcvax!inria!bullfr!hayes | | F-78430 Louveciennes FRANCE | Tel : (33 1) 39 02 49 55 | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
friedman@mbcl.rutgers.edu (10/31/90)
>I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the >last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the >drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest >45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the >drives bad? We have had in our lab a PLI Infinity 40 Turbo Syquest for about 9 months. We have had 7 cartridges only one of which went bad (by which I mean that even though it said it could handle 42M, after 8M it would not accept any more transfers). The read/write time is extremely fast (compared to a floppy). The only problem is that if you buy from more than one manufacture, you should use only one driver. A friend in another lab has syquest with a different driver and in order for me to use his disk I have to install his driver. My syquest then can read his disk. ******************************************************************************* * Rich Friedman * A mind is a terrible thing to lose * * Friedman@mbcl.rutgers.edu * Just Ask Dan Quayle * * * * My opinions must be my own, * Washington, Lincoln and Truman DIDN'T * * Nobody else will agree with them. * go to college. Dan Quayle DID! * *******************************************************************************
afton@pawl.rpi.edu (Alan S. Blue) (10/31/90)
Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr (Patrick Hayes) writes: >In article <26932@cs.yale.edu> blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) writes: >>I noted an interesting remark by the president of Syquest, quoted in >>MacWeek, that half the drives they have had returned had nothing wrong >>with them. I suspect that what is going on here is that their >>diagnostics are simply not picking up the problems. A possible reason >>why there hasn't been a bigger outcry is that people have learned to >>live with this -- the disk isn't useless, it's just a nuisance. >Ahem, about half the problems I've ever seen concerning hard disk drives on >the Mac have been traced to termination/cable problems, and I've supported >quite a few macs... >My anecdotal experience has shown me that the Syquests are just as solid as >any other hard drive (other than the fact that the removable media is a lot >easier to drop on the floor -- and even then they've been surprisingly >robust). Just my 2 cents worth here, but I was looking around about a month ago, and found some interesting facts. I called perhaps ten dealers of Syquest drives (manufacturers, not just resellers) and here was the conclusion: Syquest drives were recommended by every dealer EXCEPT MicroTech, the maker of my first drive, which incidentally, I've had no problems with in a year and a half of intensive use. I thought this strange, except for the thread on bad Syquest rumors. As far as I can tell, every rumor can be traced back to MicroTech. Their rep told me that "over 70% of the drives failed", and if you look in the MacWeek article on same, the 'Syquest-basher' is from MicroTech. Strange, no? Why? because MicroTech was recently sued by SyQuest and can no longer sell Syquest drives. Obviously, they are going to try and sell their *new* drive, which is 3x the price, for a non-standard format. So the bottom line is: Yes, Syquest drives have failed. Show me a media that never has. Yes, they are prone to dust damage. Follow the instructions on care and handling, and you won't (shouldn't) have any problems. However, Syquest drives are still the best media value for the average customer (ie those that can't fork out $4000 for a magneto-optical drive) and very reliable. I *am* buying another one, and soon. To those who have been stuck with lemons, my condolences. You haven't gotten to use a really nice media. Jason Smith (NOT Alan S Blue) reply via e-mail at: jaesyn@apl.washington.edu "I've got a strong urge to fly..." -PF khh>Pat >-- >+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ >| Patrick Hayes | EMail : Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr | >| BULL CEDIAG | or hayes@bull.fr | >| 68, Route de Versailles | or ...!mcvax!inria!bullfr!hayes | >| F-78430 Louveciennes FRANCE | Tel : (33 1) 39 02 49 55 | >+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) (10/31/90)
In article <90.272d76aa@mbcl.rutgers.edu> friedman@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:
#>>I've read the comments previously posted on the net. I've also read the
#>>last two MacWeeks which throw some doubt on the reliability of the
#>>drives. What's the real truth? Are there reputable dealers of Syquest
#>>45M removable drives at reasonable prices out there or are all the
#>>drives bad?
#>
#>We have had in our lab a PLI Infinity 40 Turbo Syquest for about 9 months.
#>We have had 7 cartridges only one of which went bad (by which I mean that
#>even though it said it could handle 42M, after 8M it would not accept any
#>more transfers). The read/write time is extremely fast (compared to a floppy).
#>The only problem is that if you buy from more than one manufacture, you should
#>use only one driver. A friend in another lab has syquest with a different
#>driver and in order for me to use his disk I have to install his driver. My
#>syquest then can read his disk.
I've had a DPI 44R (the one recommended by BMUG) on my desk for
a few weeks. The first one I got failed on the first day. I
sent it back and got a new unit. I've had no problems yet,
except that when I loaded the DPI before turning on my Mac,
my system loaded from the DPI and my internal hard disk wasn't
visible. Now I turn on the DPI but don't load the cartridge
until my Mac comes up.
I agree that the Syquest is quite fast, almost as fast as my
internal Apple drive. I have six cartridges. Where else could
I get 240 megs for under $1,000 with the option of adding more
for $75 per 42 megs. I'm using it for backup, archival storage,
and as a second disk drive.
If you are concerned, however, and can spend more money,
there are a couple of other alternatives now, which are
supposed to be more robust and which hold slightly more
per cartridge.
Steve Goldfield
College of Engineering
UC Berkeleyrad@genco.bungi.com (Bob Daniel) (11/01/90)
In article <PATRICK.HAYES.90Oct30101809@troy.cediag.bull.fr> Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr (Patrick Hayes) writes: > >My anecdotal experience has shown me that the Syquests are just as solid as >any other hard drive (other than the fact that the removable media is a lot >easier to drop on the floor -- and even then they've been surprisingly >robust). I visited APS here in KC after purchasing my SyQuest. (I was buying more cartridges.) I asked the guy how impact the resistant the cartridges are.. How took one, dropped it on the floor then threw it against the wall. It mounted just fine. (He never did answer back verbally :) ) I've dropped one a couple times and haven't had any problems. I have 5 cartridges and all have no problems.
ostroff@Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff) (11/06/90)
In article <PATRICK.HAYES.90Oct30101809@troy.cediag.bull.fr> Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr (Patrick Hayes) writes: >My anecdotal experience has shown me that the Syquests are just as solid as >any other hard drive (other than the fact that the removable media is a lot >easier to drop on the floor -- and even then they've been surprisingly >robust). Unfortunately, my experience has been different. We bought a Mass Micro drive a couple years ago. When it works, it's *wonderful*, but when it doesn't..... It's been back to the factory at least twice, as have several of the cartridges. We don't use them heavily, mostly for backups. Out of four cartridges, one refuses to format reliably now. I was all psyched up to buy one of these for my home machine, but my experiences here have soured me on the idea. Right now we're using the drive as a substitute for a broken hard disk. It frequently refuses to boot, and we occaisionally get messages like "Please insert the disk DataPak" as though it had been ejected when in fact it hasn't. I really like the idea, and the speed is great, but (at least in our case) the reliability just isn't there.... == Boyd Ostroff, Tech Director == Sys Admin, "The CallBoard" == |||| Dept of Theatre, SUNY Oswego |||| Serving the Performing Arts |||| |||| (315) 341-2987 |||| 315-947-6414 1200/2400 baud 8N1 |||| == ostroff@oswego.oswego.edu == cboard!sysop@oswego.oswego.edu ==
berger@iboga (Mike Berger) (11/10/90)
Actually, the stories about Syquest drive (un)reliability are true, and were not just rumors started by a competitor. Unfortunately, people often forget to note the details. The Syquest SQ-306 and SQ-312, 5 and 10 megabyte removeable cartridge drives, were nororiously unreliable. I know I'd be reluctant to try another Syquest drive after my experiences with those. The next time you hear stories about Syquest drives, ask WHICH ones they are referring to. -- Mike Berger Department of Statistics, University of Illinois AT&TNET 217-244-6067 Internet berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
jwright@cfht.hawaii.edu (Jim Wright) (11/11/90)
ostroff@Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff) writes: >Unfortunately, my experience has been different. We bought a Mass Micro >drive a couple years ago. When it works, it's *wonderful*, but when it >doesn't..... I believe that Mass Micro has not mastered the concept of cooling. Their fan tries to draw hot air down. Brilliant. Try touching a cartridge after it comes out of a Mass Micro drive. I've had them get so hot I couldn't handle them (and the syquest couldn't access them). I had trouble with both a Mass Micro Dual and a Mass Micro single. No trouble with my current APS drive (which has the fan mounted at the rear). Just shows that premium prices don't mean better products. -- Jim Wright jwright@cfht.hawaii.edu Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope Corp.