aoki@husc9.harvard.edu (Edwin Aoki) (12/19/90)
A great big thank you to all on the net for their help in finding me a
Syquest hard drive. Special thanks to those who provided me with first-hand
information, and to Erik Johnson at the University of Illinois who sent me
a ton of information.
First some answers to my own questions. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa
Claus, or rather, Yes, Edwin, all removable drives did use the Syquest
cartridge. Why "did"? Ricoh has come up with a new cartridge mechanism (more
on those later). The Syquest cartridge itself, which is apparently inter-
changeable among drives of different vendors (including PC vendors) is a small
2 head cartridge encased in a plastic shell. It holds 42MB of formatted
information. Most vendors tack a 1 year warranty on to the cartridge, and I'm
told that the cartridges themselves are very reliable.
Ricoh's new mechanism is a 50MB model (not sure whether that's formatted or
not; if not, there should be about 47-48MB useable space formatted). It
has air seals on the drive which the Syquest does not, which provides for, I'm
told, better (cleaner) operation. Also, there is an interlock mechanism that
retracts the heads whenenver the cartridge is not in the drive (in the Syquest,
as I understand, it's up to the drive to do that). Unfortunately, the Ricoh
also comes with a much heftier price tag (on the order of $1,299 retail), but
manufacturers are listed below.
It is possible to use the Syquest (or, I presume the Ricoh) as a primary startup
device, but much depends on SCSI timing and the drive's spin-up time. Some
have said that they needed to turn on their drive before their machines; others
have reported no such problems. Best to check with the manufacturer was the
response I got most often.
Other issues involve noise (the PLI drive is apparently very noisy), tech
support, manufacturer's reputation, SCSI termination, and of course, price.
SCSI termination is important; many drives allow for both internal and external
termination, but for some, you have to physically remove the internal
terminating resistor. Not a pretty sight for some, lots of fun for others, but
at any rate, Apple recommends that all devices should use external termination
(especially because of the need for better terminatino on the IIfx), so this
may be a feature you consider. Another bonus comes in how much software
comes with the system. Norton Utilities, SUM, and others were common. One
person recommended that I use La Cie's Silverlining software ($99 from La Cie,
without the purchase of anything else) to format all of my drives and carts,
to ensure a consistent, reliable model of formatting that can be maintained
by a single program.
There are two mechanisms used for the Syquest, apparently, one a slightly
faster update with a better mean time between failure (MTBF). The average
access time (whatever that means) is about 25ms; the newer mechanisms are about
20ms. Some manufacturers still use the older mechanism, so you may want to
ask the manufacturer.
Appended below is a list compiled by Erik Johnson, in its original form, that
lists some of the main manufacturers that make removable cartridge drives.
Appended below that are updates that I've compiled, including a couple of
price updates and one product update.
Hope that this helps; feel free to mail me with any additional questions. Oh,
and I've decided to go with DPI, which was highly recommended by BMUG and came
with an absolutely irresitable price. Their support person was also
reasonably good. I was very sorry that Microtech had switched to the Ricoh
mechanism, because Microtech's technical support was absolutely outstanding.
I did consider spendign the extra money to find an old Microtech 45MB drive,
but then I realized that it wasn't worth almost $200, although it was close --
their tech support is THAT good.
And a happy holiday to the net.
-Edwin Aoki
(aoki@husc9.harvard.edu) -- please send mail; I'll be on break and will
only be checking mail, not news.
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LaCie, Ltd. Name: Cirrus 45
16285 SW 85th, Bldg 306 Speed: 20ms
Tigard, OR 97224 Warranty: 1 yr
(800) 999-0143 Cost: $800; $899 w/one cartridge
(503) 684-0143 Cost/Cartridge: $129
Additional Costs: add 3% for Visa, 10% for rush
Software: Silverlining software (formatting,
diagnostic, map out bad sectors,
etc.); Silverserver software
Comments: Sales staff was neither very helpful nor prompt for me, but
some others haven't had that problem.
The Silverlining software is reputed to be some of the best
software around for removables (possibly including some
disk optimization (unfragmenting files) software, but I did not
have this confirmed). The drive is also reputed to be one of
the quietest on the market and reputed to be one of the fastest
due to "low level drivers".
Mass Microsystems Name: Datapack 45MB
550 Del Rey Ave Speed: 20ms
Sunnyvale, CA 94068 Warranty: ?
(800) 522-7979 Cost: $1500 (retail);
(408) 522-1200 $1185 from Programs Plus
Cost/Cartridge: $125 from Programs Plus
Software: Volume partitioning and protection
software, plus a bunch of
shareware and SUMII by Symantec
Extras: two external power outlets; surge
protector; shareware;
SUMII by Symantec
Comments: there were several strong praises of this drive
Ehman Name: Removable 45MB
Speed: 20ms
Evanston, Wyoming Warranty: 2 yr (1 yr on cartridges)
(800) 257-1666 Cost: $749
Cost/Cartridge: $99
Software: ?
Extras: removable SCSI terminators
Comments: This drive is also sold under the name of "Cutting Edge" when
sold through a distributer (e.g. MacWarehouse, MacConnection --
note that I found that the prices direct from Ehman were better
than throught the distributers by up to $80 for the mechanism
and $15/cartridge).
There have also been comments suggesting that the Ehman drives
have the cheapest power supplies and fans, the latter being
rather noisy.
One report of software incompatibilities with the Mac IIci;
also a report of a conflict with Apple's CD-ROM INIT.
Dolphin System Technology Name: Flipper 44MB
1701 E. Edinger Ave., Bldg G Speed: 25ms (though they expect 20ms soon)
Santa Ana, CA 92705 Warranty: ?
(714) 558-3220 Cost: $879 from MacWarehouse
Cost/Cartridge:
Software: installer software
Extras: shareware
Peripheral Land, Inc. Name: Infinity Turbo 40
47800 Westinghouse Dr. Speed: ?
Fremont, CA 94538 Warranty: ?
(800) 288-8754 Cost: $1098 from MacWarehouse;
(415) 657-2211 $999 from MacLand (25ms)
AppleLink: D0495 Cost/Cartridge: $109 from Programs Plus
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Comments: One person came out screaming about this -- a dealer in his
town had every one they've sold in the last 6 months come
back because of problems. On the other hand, a dealer in
Champaign, IL has had one in their service department and
have loved it.
Mirror Technologies Name: RM42
2644 Patton Rd Speed: 20ms
Roseville, MN 55113 Warranty: 2 yr (1 yr on cartridges)
(800) 654-5294 Cost: $747
(612) 633-4450 Cost/Cartridge: $99 ($94 for 3-10, $91 for >10)
Tech support: Additional Costs: $35 UPS or $60 overnight
(612) 633-2105 Software: initialization software
Extras: shareware; external pushbutton
SCSI address selection
Comments: Quite helpful sales staff; great results so far, but
would be nice if externally terminated
MicroTech International Name: R45 Removable
158 Commerce St Speed: "faster access time" (<==>20ms?)
East Haven, CT 06512 Warranty: 2 yr
(800) 325-1895 Cost: $1099 (but reports of under $900?)
Cost/Cartridge: $99
Software: ?
Extras: one 50-50 SCSI cable,
one 25-50 SCSI cable, cartridge,
terminator
Comments: many strong praises of this drive;
possible discount for users group members
DPI Name: DPI44
40 Corning Ave Speed: 20ms
Milpitas, CA 95035 Warranty: 2 yr
(800) 825-1850 Cost: $739 with one cartridge;
(408) 945-1850 $899 with 3 cartridges
Cost/Cartridge: $79
Additional Costs: $10 with credit card; $30 overnite
Software: formatting software
Extras:
Comments: possible discount for users group members
MacZone Name: Complete Syquest drive
Speed: ?
Warranty: 2 yr; 30day money-back guarantee
(800) 248-0800 Cost: $803
Cost/Cartridge: $89
Additional Costs: $3 overnite
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Comments: MacZone used to sell syquest drives from other companies (e.g.
Dolphin's Flipper and PLI's Infinity Turbo 40) but now they
purchase their own syquest mechanisms and add the case, cables,
etc.
My biggest concern here is what happens when it breaks? MacZone
is not really a "manufacturer" to whom one could presumably
return a broken device to be repared. They are primarily an
order-by-phone distributer.
Bay Microsystems, Inc. Name: 44 Repack
210 Columbus Ave., #108 Speed: ?
San Francisco, CA 94133 Warranty: ?
(415) 563-8392 Cost: $1149 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $108
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Info Technologies Drives, Inc. Name: Info42R
950 Taraval St. Speed: ?
San Francisco, CA 94116 Warranty: ?
(415) 753-1222 Cost: $1200 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $125 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
MacProducts USA Name: Magic 45
8303 Mopac Expressway, #218 Speed: ?
Austin, TX 78759 Warranty: ?
(800) 622-7627 Cost: $1495 (retail);
(512) 343-9441 Cost/Cartridge: $149 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
MicroNet Technology, Inc. Name: Micro/Removable 45
13765-A Alton Parkway Speed: ?
Irvine, CA 92718 Warranty: ?
(714) 837-6033 Cost: $1645 (retail);
Cost/Cartridge: $169 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Relax Technologies Name: Mobile 42 Plus
3101 Whipple Rd., #22 Speed: ?
Union City, CA 94587 Warranty: ?
(800) 848-1313 Cost: $1695 (retail);
(415) 471-6112 Cost/Cartridge: $129 (retail)
Software: ?
Extras: ?
Alliance Peripheral Systems Name: ?
P.O. Box 32982 Speed: ?
637 W. 57th Terrace Warranty: ?
Kansas City, MO 64111 Cost: $659
(800) 233-7550 Cost/Cartridge: $72.50
(816) 373-5800 Software: ?
Extras: ?
P.S. Don't hold me to any of the data I have listed here. Much of what I
have said has come from other people on the net and e-mail that I got
in answer to my queries. The rest has come from talking to sales rep's
at some of the manufacturers and from reading various advertisements
and articles in MacWorld, MacUser, and MacWeek (for company addresses
and phone numbers, see especially "Hard Disk Alternatives", MacWorld,
July 1989)
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A couple of updates...
(I can't claim to have quite as much information as Erik, but...)
The DPI drive is now $579 with one cartridge; additionals are $76.
Microtech no longer makes a 45MB Syquest cartridge; their new model is a
Ricoh 50MB model, the 50R, for about $1,200. GCC also sells a 50MB model
based on the Ricoh mechanism.
PLI is down to about $750 now, as are most of the other drives.
Mass Microsystems is apparently the only company that ships their cartridges
pre-formatted, and their DataPak is for some reason more expensive than almost
any of the other drives, but is available for the same $7xx through mail order.
The Microtech tech support people were by far the friendliest, most helpful
computer folks I've met this side of ComputerWare (in Palo Alto). The La Cie
people were helpful for me, after speaking with one woman off hours who asked
me to call back during normal business hours because she didn't feel comfort-
able answering technical questions. DPI was also reasonably helpful, if
somewhat brusque.
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Edwin Aoki This is a .sig. It is only a .sig
aoki@husc9.harvard.edu Had this been a real letter, I wouldn't have had to
aoki@husc9.bitnet say that the opinions above are mine and not of Harvard.ogus@crystal.berkeley.edu (Arthur E. Ogus) (12/20/90)
I know that it has been discussed over and over, but I am having serious problems and am desperately seeking information. I have a PLI Infinity Turbo Drive (i.e. a Syquest removable cartridge system) and have been using it without serious difficulty with my Mac IIfx for several months. The PLI has switches so that you can turn off the internal termination, which is very convenient, and with the black SCSI fx terminator inserted in the SCSI chain (either between the cable and the PLI drive or in the other SCSI port of the PLI drive) everything has been working fine. However, the new cartridges I have purchased in the last month or so refuse to be recognized by the drive---they spin up and then down again, and never appear on the desktop. I never get a chance to format them. This happens with every cartridge I buy. If I take the cartridges to the store, they are fine on the drives there. One person told me that Syquest has changed the cartridges, and that the new ones are distinguished from the old ones by the presence of an arrow embossed in the plastic case, in the corner opposite the red write protection button. He knew of someone with a drive that accepted only the old style cartridges. Sure enough, when I got home, I found that my old cartridges, which still work fine, do not have the arrow, and the new ones, which don't, do not. In desperation, I took my drive and a troublesome cartridge down to PLI, and after two days they called me back to say that it worked fine on their IIfx. Anyway, I find myself in the nightmare situation in which each vendor says its the other vendor's fault. It finally occured to me to look again at Macintosh Technicol Note number 273, which describes SCSI termination for the IIfx. In particular, it mentions, something called the "Internal SCSI Filter" which provides "termination capacitance for internal Macintosh IIfx hard drives that shipped prior to March 19, 1990." It is not clear to me what this means, or if I am supposed to have one. I am beginning to suspect that I am supposed to have something (is it the mysterious grey T-shaped thing?) inserted between the SCSI cable and the internal hard drive that is not there. I have talked to Apple, to my dealer, and to PLI, and have no clear answer. Worst of all, I am leaving the country in 5 days and have to have this cleared up before Christmas! If anyone can help, I will be immensely grateful. Arthur Ogus Department of Mathematics University of California Berkeley, California