hzink@alchemy.UUCP (Harry K. Zink) (12/17/90)
I would really like to know who at Apple is responsible for the new keyboard layout of the LC and Classic keyboards? I have never seen a more useless and in my opinion utterly stupid act. From the talks I had with several Apple people at the recent Mac LC it seems that no one is really happy with this 'new' layout either. I fail to see th reason behind it. It sure is not for the all powerful excuse of saving manufacturing costs. It obviously wasn't to adhere to some strange IBM specified standard, as happened with the extended keyboard (which has the ctrl and shft-lock keys in the 'wrong' places). Now the caps-lock/ctrl problem wasn't that big a deal since the caps can always be rewired and Apple obviously took the idea from the PC style keyboards. Where does the idea for these news things come from. Of all possible layouts, I have never seen the ESC anywhere but where we are used to it (of course, I also do not claim to know all standards). Yet, what I afil to see is why would apple deliberately chnage the keyboard when the entire line finally had some sort of homogenous layout? This way it will be an additional obstavle for users that have tos witch between the LC, Classic and the rest of the line (granted, the ESC and tilde keys do not get too much traffic, but that is just one more reason why I don't see why they had to switch them.) Of course, the sensible thing is to just get a standard keyboard and toss the new one out - even though it has a nicer feeling and look to it in my opinion. So, does anyone have any ideas as to this? Harry uucp : ucrmath!alchemy!hzink | Achieve True Wealth and Financial Independence! INET : hzink@alchemy.uucp | Intrigued? - Send E-Mail! -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------ Wesley: "Captain, this doesn't look like the holodeck to me." Worf: "Ready to cycle airlock, Captain." Picard: "Make it so."
walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Walk) (12/18/90)
hzink@alchemy.UUCP (Harry K. Zink) writes: >I would really like to know who at Apple is responsible for the new keyboard >layout of the LC and Classic keyboards? I have never seen a more useless and >in my opinion utterly stupid act. >From the talks I had with several Apple people at the recent Mac LC it seems >that no one is really happy with this 'new' layout either. >I fail to see th reason behind it. It sure is not for the all powerful excuse >of saving manufacturing costs. It obviously wasn't to adhere to some strange >IBM specified standard, as happened with the extended keyboard (which has the >ctrl and shft-lock keys in the 'wrong' places). Now the caps-lock/ctrl >problem wasn't that big a deal since the caps can always be rewired and Apple >obviously took the idea from the PC style keyboards. >Where does the idea for these news things come from. Of all possible layouts, >I have never seen the ESC anywhere but where we are used to it (of course, I >also do not claim to know all standards). Yet, what I afil to see is why would >apple deliberately chnage the keyboard when the entire line finally had some >sort of homogenous layout? This way it will be an additional obstavle for >users that have tos witch between the LC, Classic and the rest of the line >(granted, the ESC and tilde keys do not get too much traffic, but that is just >one more reason why I don't see why they had to switch them.) >Of course, the sensible thing is to just get a standard keyboard and toss the >new one out - even though it has a nicer feeling and look to it in my opinion. >So, does anyone have any ideas as to this? >Harry > uucp : ucrmath!alchemy!hzink | Achieve True Wealth and Financial Independence! > INET : hzink@alchemy.uucp | Intrigued? - Send E-Mail! > -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------ > Wesley: "Captain, this doesn't look like the holodeck to me." > Worf: "Ready to cycle airlock, Captain." Picard: "Make it so." Look at a program called Escape. One option switches the escape and tilde keys. It costs $20-$30 (I'm going to wait for someone to come out with a shareware or PD version). I really believe that the person responsible for this problem should be fired! (After all, that person had to WORK to get this changed, otherwise it would have been easier to keep it the same.) Todd Walk walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
ehanson@umbc2.umbc.edu (Mr. Erik Hanson; ARTS-SCI (UG)) (12/18/90)
hzink@alchemy.UUCP (Harry K. Zink) writes... >I would really like to know who at Apple is responsible for the new keyboard >layout of the LC and Classic keyboards? I have never seen a more useless and >in my opinion utterly stupid act. Probably the same people responsible for the LC and Classic. I have never seen a more useless and in my opinion utterly stupid pair of computers. I don't mean to put down the engineers and designers, I'm sure they did a good job (better than I could... I couldn't design a calculator if my life depended on it. But then again, I'm not an engineer). I _do_ mean, however, to put down the people who push the profit margin up so high that to make a $1200 machine, the designers are forced to use six bucks in parts. Haven't they been using the same CPU for 7 years? (Okay, I realize the LC has an '020. Welcome to the 80's, guys.) For _only_ ;-) four times the price of a classic, you can have the best damn computer ever built! (Yes, I'm talking about a NeXT. And no, I can't afford one. So why do I bring it up? I don't know. Wasn't this post about keyboards?) >Where does the idea for these news things come from. Of all possible layouts, >I have never seen the ESC anywhere but where we are used to it (of course, I >also do not claim to know all standards). Yet, what I afil to see is why would >apple deliberately chnage the keyboard when the entire line finally had some >sort of homogenous layout? Why would Apple have a hundred (or four or five) different "standard" expansion slot types? Somebody at Apple is a few cans short of a six-pack, if you ask me. >Of course, the sensible thing is to just get a standard keyboard and toss the >new one out - even though it has a nicer feeling and look to it in my opinion. Aha! Even though it comes with a keyboard (a considerable selling point), you want to buy another one? And since you're spending money on a keyboard, you might as well get the extended keyboard, don't you think? (mo' money! mo' money! mo' money!) Maybe Apple thought of this, also. (Now for the obligitory "Sure, I've got one. And sure, I love it. But I'm going to bash Apple anyway" section.) I may be a bit naive, but I think that Apple started out with the goal of "making money by building the best damn personal computers around". And now their goal has changed to "making money (and lots of it)". >So, does anyone have any ideas as to this? > >Harry > > uucp : ucrmath!alchemy!hzink | Achieve True Wealth and Financial Independence! > INET : hzink@alchemy.uucp | Intrigued? - Send E-Mail! > -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------ > Wesley: "Captain, this doesn't look like the holodeck to me." > Worf: "Ready to cycle airlock, Captain." Picard: "Make it so." Picard: "Data, how are your experiments to remove Mr. Crusher from all of the reruns going?" Erik Hanson, UCLA - University of Catonsville, Left of Arbutus. ehanson@umbc2.umbc.edu
jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) (12/20/90)
In article <4706@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> ehanson@umbc2.umbc.edu writes: >hzink@alchemy.UUCP (Harry K. Zink) writes... >Probably the same people responsible for the LC and Classic. I have never >seen a more useless and in my opinion utterly stupid pair of computers. Amazingly stupid comments abound, don't they? How can a computer that is functionally the same as the computer used effectively in thousands of business offices be "useless". The Classic is a useful computer. Maybe it isn't gee-whiz enough for you, but it's extremely useful. >I _do_ mean, however, to put down the people who push the profit margin >up so high that to make a $1200 machine, the designers are forced to use >six bucks in parts. Haven't they been using the same CPU for 7 years? So? I haven't heard of a single definition of useful which has a time span it. >(Okay, I realize the LC has an '020. Welcome to the 80's, guys.) For >_only_ ;-) four times the price of a classic, you can have the best damn >computer ever built! (Yes, I'm talking about a NeXT. And no, I can't afford >one. So why do I bring it up? I don't know. Wasn't this post about keyboards?) Your math must be a lot different from mine. 4 x $1200 street price for a Mac Classic with hard disk doesn't come near the street price of a NeXT. Oh yeah, I forgot, *Educational Discount Price*. > >Why would Apple have a hundred (or four or five) different "standard" >expansion slot types? Somebody at Apple is a few cans short of a six-pack, >if you ask me. Apple has one slot type, the NuBus. Even though the marketing and sales droids call the rest "slots" anyone that examines them should realize they are just connectors attached directly to the pins of the CPU chip. Thus when the CPU chip changes pinouts, the Processor Direct Slot must change. Logical, isn't it, Spock? All they really are is a more reliable replacement for the Killy clip used by many 3rd party suppliers to attach daughter boards to the CPU chip. > >>Of course, the sensible thing is to just get a standard keyboard and toss the >>new one out - even though it has a nicer feeling and look to it in my opinion. Well, he likes something about it. 8^) Personnally, I use five different keyboard layouts every single day. I don't know what the fuss is about position of the keys is. I'm just happy to finally get a keyboard from Apple that *has* all the keys! > >I may be a bit naive, but I think that Apple started out with the goal >of "making money by building the best damn personal computers around". And >now their goal has changed to "making money (and lots of it)". Sigh. Yes, I think you are a bit naive. Apple started with more than one goal. Woz had one, Jobs had another. Later on Jobs had one, and Woz was gone. Jobs was the person who told the "independent" design company that if they wanted to keep Apple's business, they couldn't design the packaging for Wozniak's new company. Nice Guy? Do you think there was something better about Apple in the old days? Now they've just cut their margins. Honest. They expect to make it up in quantity, true. But they did cut their margins. Oh well, why am I replying to you? You think NeXT is the next level of computer life. I think it's the next example of a failed idea. We'll see who's right, won't we? -- __ __ / o / Jim Budler jimb@silvlis.com | Proud / / /\/\ /__ Silvar-Lisco, Inc. +1.408.991.6115 | MacIIsi /__/ / / / /__/ 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086 | owner