michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael A. Hoffhines) (12/28/90)
A couple weeks back someone posted an article (sorry, couldn't find the reference) to the effect that they had exchanged their old extended keyboard for the new one and had not experienced any of the intermittent problems they had with the earlier keyboard. This sounded too good to be true, so I dug out my receipt, described the problem to my local dealer and got the new extended keyboard. Yes, the feel is a little softer on the joints, but the same problems exist with certain keystroke combinations - unfortunately. Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the combinations that create problems: 1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes appear. 2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'. I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems, but these two sting me at least once a day. Still waiting for a fix, Mike. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Hoffhines | INTERNET: michaelh@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu ICS Department | University of Hawaii | Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean. B. Banzai ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
patten@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Brian Michael Patten) (12/28/90)
In article <10772@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael A. Hoffhines) writes: > [a few intro lines deleted] >This sounded too good to be true, so I dug out my receipt, described the >problem to my local dealer and got the new extended keyboard. Yes, the >feel is a little softer on the joints, but the same problems exist with >certain keystroke combinations - unfortunately. > >Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the >combinations that create problems: > >1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until > you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes > appear. >2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'. > >I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems, >but these two sting me at least once a day. > >Still waiting for a fix, Mike. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Hoffhines | INTERNET: michaelh@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu > ICS Department | > University of Hawaii | Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean. B. Banzai > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I too have a "new" extended keyboard on my SE/30 and have been experiencing the exact same problems that Mike describes above (especially the thing with "out" coming across as "ou;", this really bugs me when I am logging out of the local mainframes). All this time I thought it was just poor typing ability on my part. How many others on the net have experienced these kinds of problems, and does Apple have a solution? I'm kind of pissed off when I am now told that my $3000 computer system can't reproduce what I type on the keyboard. And what makes it worse is that I have been blaming myself all this time, not the computer. Hey Apple, a SPARCstation is starting to look *really* good to me. It's those little annoying problems that tend to drive away customers. Especially those little problems that never seem to get fixed. Brian Patten *************************************************************************** patten@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu Future site of Institute for Astronomy a really clever University of Hawaii at Manoa .sig quote ;-) ***************************************************************************
Michael.A..Hoffhines@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael A. Hoffhines) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
A couple weeks back someone posted an article (sorry, couldn't find the
reference) to the effect that they had exchanged their old extended
keyboard for the new one and had not experienced any of the intermittent
problems they had with the earlier keyboard.
This sounded too good to be true, so I dug out my receipt, described the
problem to my local dealer and got the new extended keyboard. Yes, the
feel is a little softer on the joints, but the same problems exist with
certain keystroke combinations - unfortunately.
Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the
combinations that create problems:
1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until
you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes
appear.
2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'.
I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems,
but these two sting me at least once a day.
Still waiting for a fix, Mike.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hoffhines I INTERNET: michaelh@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
ICS Department I
University of Hawaii I Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean. B. Banzai
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Organization: University of Hawaii
--
Michael A. Hoffhines - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Michael.A..Hoffhines
INTERNET: Michael.A..Hoffhines@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGBrian.Michael.Patten@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Brian Michael Patten) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: patten@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu In article <10772@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael A. Hoffhines) writes: > [a few intro lines deleted] >This sounded too good to be true, so I dug out my receipt, described the >problem to my local dealer and got the new extended keyboard. Yes, the >feel is a little softer on the joints, but the same problems exist with >certain keystroke combinations - unfortunately. > >Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the >combinations that create problems: > >1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until > you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes > appear. >2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'. > >I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems, >but these two sting me at least once a day. > >Still waiting for a fix, Mike. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Hoffhines I INTERNET: michaelh@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu > ICS Department I > University of Hawaii I Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean. B. Banzai > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I too have a "new" extended keyboard on my SE/30 and have been experiencing the exact same problems that Mike describes above (especially the thing with "out" coming across as "ou;", this really bugs me when I am logging out of the local mainframes). All this time I thought it was just poor typing ability on my part. How many others on the net have experienced these kinds of problems, and does Apple have a solution? I'm kind of pissed off when I am now told that my $3000 computer system can't reproduce what I type on the keyboard. And what makes it worse is that I have been blaming myself all this time, not the computer. Hey Apple, a SPARCstation is starting to look *really* good to me. It's those little annoying problems that tend to drive away customers. Especially those little problems that never seem to get fixed. Brian Patten *************************************************************************** patten@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu Future site of Institute for Astronomy a really clever University of Hawaii at Manoa .sig quote ;-) *************************************************************************** + Organization: University of Hawaii -- Brian Michael Patten - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Brian.Michael.Patten INTERNET: Brian.Michael.Patten@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Gavin_Eadie@UM.CC.UMich.EDU (Gavin Eadie) (12/28/90)
In article <10774@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> patten@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Brian Michael Patten) writes: > How many others on the net have experienced these kinds of problems, > and does Apple have a solution? I'm interested to hear that this problem is still there on the new keyboards. This first arose for me in April when my wife, with her new IIcx, complained that she couldn't type "stop" on her Mac. Being a techo-jockey with 25 years of programming under my belt, I decried this silliness, after all I'd been using a Mac since January 1984 etc etc ... Well, of course, she was right. I reported the problem to Apple Developer Technical Support and got a nice message back saying, in effect, "Don't be silly!". I let it drop for a while till the same problem was mentioned on usenet, at which point I realised there was something systematic going on. I started to experiment. I discovered that, if you type really fast, taking the best advantage of key rollover, the keyboard really *does* jam temporarily. I got back to Mac DTS with instructions on exactly how to reproduce the problem. This time they tried it and got it to happen for them too. There was no workaround (except type more slowly), the bug was suspected in the keyboard ROM and probably would not be there in the next keyboard. When I got System 7.0 beta 1, I tested for this again (just to see if it was system related) and discovered it was still present. I passed this information to Apple and got a snotty reply from DTS. Sad to say, it seems to still exist in the new keyboards (though I've not been able to test this for myself) and so I'm going back to Apple with this new information. I've not chased this too hard so far (since I've almost not believed it could be true), but it seems like the time to escalate this. I agree with the sentiment that when you spend a lot of money of a computer ($5000 in my case) it ought to accurately collect what you type on the keyboard. I'll give Apple one more try since I now have the name of the keyboard ROM person to see if they can offer a better answer than those I've had to date. Fortunately, I have all the DTS and usenet correspondence on this matter still in files --- Gavin Eadie, U of Michigan, Information Systems
ghe@nucthy.physics.orst.edu (Guangliang He) (12/29/90)
In article <1990Dec28.154627.23654@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Gavin_Eadie@UM.CC.UMich.EDU (Gavin Eadie) writes:
=
= I started to experiment. I discovered that, if you type really fast,
= taking the best advantage of key rollover, the keyboard really *does* jam
= temporarily. I got back to Mac DTS with instructions on exactly how to
= reproduce the problem. This time they tried it and got it to happen for
= them too. There was no workaround (except type more slowly), the bug was
= suspected in the keyboard ROM and probably would not be there in the next
= keyboard.
=
= When I got System 7.0 beta 1, I tested for this again (just to see if it
= was system related) and discovered it was still present. I passed this
= information to Apple and got a snotty reply from DTS.
=
Of course the problem is still there. That is the main reason why system 7.0
has been delayed so looooong. Simply because the apple programmer can't type
fast enough. :-(
Guangliang He
ghe@PHYSICS.ORST.EDU
hegl@ORSTVM.BITNETGavin.Eadie@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Gavin Eadie) (12/29/90)
Reply-To: Gavin_Eadie@UM.CC.UMich.EDU In article <10774@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> patten@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Brian Michael Patten) writes: > How many others on the net have experienced these kinds of problems, > and does Apple have a solution? I'm interested to hear that this problem is still there on the new keyboards. This first arose for me in April when my wife, with her new IIcx, complained that she couldn't type "stop" on her Mac. Being a techo-jockey with 25 years of programming under my belt, I decried this silliness, after all I'd been using a Mac since January 1984 etc etc ... Well, of course, she was right. I reported the problem to Apple Developer Technical Support and got a nice message back saying, in effect, "Don't be silly!". I let it drop for a while till the same problem was mentioned on usenet, at which point I realised there was something systematic going on. I started to experiment. I discovered that, if you type really fast, taking the best advantage of key rollover, the keyboard really *does* jam temporarily. I got back to Mac DTS with instructions on exactly how to reproduce the problem. This time they tried it and got it to happen for them too. There was no workaround (except type more slowly), the bug was suspected in the keyboard ROM and probably would not be there in the next keyboard. When I got System 7.0 beta 1, I tested for this again (just to see if it was system related) and discovered it was still present. I passed this information to Apple and got a snotty reply from DTS. Sad to say, it seems to still exist in the new keyboards (though I've not been able to test this for myself) and so I'm going back to Apple with this new information. I've not chased this too hard so far (since I've almost not believed it could be true), but it seems like the time to escalate this. I agree with the sentiment that when you spend a lot of money of a computer ($5000 in my case) it ought to accurately collect what you type on the keyboard. I'll give Apple one more try since I now have the name of the keyboard ROM person to see if they can offer a better answer than those I've had to date. Fortunately, I have all the DTS and usenet correspondence on this matter still in files Gavin Eadie, U of Michigan, Information Systems + Organization: U of Michigan Information Systems -- Gavin Eadie - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Gavin.Eadie INTERNET: Gavin.Eadie@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Guangliang.He@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Guangliang He) (12/29/90)
From: ghe@nucthy.physics.orst.edu Reply-To: ghe@nucthy.PHYSICS.ORST.EDU In article <1990Dec28.154627.23654@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Gavin_Eadie@UM.CC.UMich.EDU (Gavin Eadie) writes: = = I started to experiment. I discovered that, if you type really fast, = taking the best advantage of key rollover, the keyboard really *does* jam = temporarily. I got back to Mac DTS with instructions on exactly how to = reproduce the problem. This time they tried it and got it to happen for = them too. There was no workaround (except type more slowly), the bug was = suspected in the keyboard ROM and probably would not be there in the next = keyboard. = = When I got System 7.0 beta 1, I tested for this again (just to see if it = was system related) and discovered it was still present. I passed this = information to Apple and got a snotty reply from DTS. = Of course the problem is still there. That is the main reason why system 7.0 has been delayed so looooong. Simply because the apple programmer can't type fast enough. :-( Guangliang He ghe@PHYSICS.ORST.EDU hegl@ORSTVM.BITNET + Organization: Dept. of Physics, Oregon State University -- Guangliang He - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Guangliang.He INTERNET: Guangliang.He@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (01/01/91)
I don't have the "pro" or "out" problems on my IIci, with extended keyboard
II. I also have the Apple mouse and a Kensington trackball hooked up. Perhaps
the problem relates to CPU speed?
System 6.0.7, with more INITs than I care to think about :-)
Richard C. Long * long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com
* ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long
* long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com jtn@ADS.COM (John T. Nelson) (01/05/91)
>This sounded too good to be true, so I dug out my receipt, described the >problem to my local dealer and got the new extended keyboard. Yes, the >feel is a little softer on the joints, but the same problems exist with >certain keystroke combinations - unfortunately. > >Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the >combinations that create problems: > >1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until > you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes > appear. >2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'. > >I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems, >but these two sting me at least once a day. These are EXACTLY the symptoms I see on my extended keyboard at home and at work. I haven't heard a word... not one... from Apple regarding acknowledgment of the problem or a fix. Looks like Apple just makes bad keyboards. Some Mac owners buy their keyboards from third party vendors and I haven't heard any complaints from them so I assume that the third-party boards don't have the same problems. Pretty sad when a computer famed for it's interface does stuff like this. Even the old MacPlus keyboard behaves better. Also real annoying when you are a fast typist and the keyboard either seizes up on you or types incorrect characters (particularly when typing the word "outgoing"). -- ORGANIZATION: Advanced Decision Systems GEOGRAPHIC: Arlington, VA UUCP: kzin!speaker@mimsy.umd.edu INTERNET: jtn@potomac.ads.com SPOKEN: John T. Nelson PHONE: (703) 243-1611 PROJECT: Macintosh hacking -- "Love the Machine... Hate the Company"
aard@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Anthony C. Ard) (01/05/91)
Hello!!Hello!! I bought a Mac IIci with and extended keyboard only 4 months ago and I've had no, absolutely no problems. As a matter of fact, I've tried all the deadly combinations previously posted and have had no problems. Maybe some suggestions for fixes or possible user problems is in order. Perhaps your key repeat is set a little too low. Or, maybe you are dragging your fingers as you type these characters. If it is a hardware problem, has the adb connector ever been disconneted while the computer is running. Finally if there is a problem with the keyboard we all need to get ou [sic] and do some sleuthing. Serial numbers of keyboards would be much more helpful than just complaining its the computer's fault. I mean, geez, my mechanical typewriter sticks at about 40 wpm. And considering the crap thats wrong with other pc's (drive doors breaking, faulty roms) don't bitc* too loud!
lee@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Lee M. Thompson) (01/06/91)
In article <10772@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Mich ael A. Hoffhines) writes: >>Once again, for any listening eyes from Apple, here are some of the >>combinations that create problems: >> >>1. Typing 'pro' rapidly results in 'pr' and the keyboard freezes until >> you type something other than an 'oh', then subsequent keystrokes >> appear. >>2. Typing 'out' rapidly results in 'ou;'. >> >>I haven't come across any combinations other than these that create problems, >>but these two sting me at least once a day. actually, has anyone ever thought that i could be typing speed that's causing the problems? the particular combinations being cited are ones that people would type rapidly, even if they're not trained typists. IBM ran across this problem about 25 years ago with their selectric typewriters. typing faster than 80 words per minute jammed the mechanism. as someone who types 100 words a minute, yes i've run across this on the new keyboards. when i'm typing that fast! not otherwise. good thing i've still got my floatation device. (original extended keyboard was called "saratoga" during development) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Standard Disclaimers>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Lee M. Thompson >>>>>> >> lee@soda.berkeley.edu >>> >> "NFS=No File Safe" >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Standard Disclaimers>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Lee M. Thompson >>>>>> >> lee@soda.berkeley.edu >>> >> "NFS=No File Safe" >>>
patten@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Brian Michael Patten) (01/07/91)
In article <40235@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> lee@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Lee M. Thompson) writes: > > >actually, has anyone ever thought that i could be typing speed that's causing >the problems? the particular combinations being cited are ones that people >would type rapidly, even if they're not trained typists. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Standard Disclaimers>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Lee M. Thompson >>>>>> >>> lee@soda.berkeley.edu >>> >>> "NFS=No File Safe" >>> Lee, Yes, I had originally thought that this problem was related to my own rapid and often sloppy typing style. I have experimented with typing these forbidden letter combinations at various speeds and am able to reproduce the problems even at very slow character entry. So it's not the typist's speed that is the problem. Brian Patten *************************************************************************** patten@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu Future site of Institute for Astronomy a really clever University of Hawaii at Manoa .sig quote ;-) ***************************************************************************
jjwcmp@isc.rit.edu (Jeff Wasilko) (01/07/91)
In article <G4V^R3|@ads.com> jtn@ADS.COM (John T. Nelson) writes: >These are EXACTLY the symptoms I see on my extended keyboard at home >and at work. I haven't heard a word... not one... from Apple >regarding acknowledgment of the problem or a fix. Looks like Apple >just makes bad keyboards. Some Mac owners buy their keyboards from >third party vendors and I haven't heard any complaints from them so I >assume that the third-party boards don't have the same problems. We have a large number of Switchboards from Datadesk. I've tried all of the posted cobinations that break on the Apple boards, and they work on the Switchboard. I haven't had any other problems, either. I'm usully the first person to defend Apple, but it seems like they blew it again with the new boards. It's not like a keyboard is important for using a computer (-: Jeff -- | RIT VAX/VMS Systems: | Jeff Wasilko | RIT Ultrix Systems: | |BITNET: jjwcmp@ritvax +----------------------+ INET:jjwcmp@ultb.isc.rit.edu| |INTERNET: jjwcmp@ritvax.rit.edu |____UUCP:jjwcmp@ultb.UUCP____| |'claimer: I speak only for myself. Opinions expressed are NOT those of RIT.|