johnim@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Im) (02/08/91)
Last week, I asked for information about Teac based tape back-up systems. I got a lot of requests for summaries, so here it is. Basically, most people gave the units from APS very high marks. I got my HD from them, and I have to agree that it's a great company. They also seem to have the best prices around. Someone also recomended Tecmar units. I agree that they're better than the Teac mechanisms, but they also cost 2-3 times as much. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I'll be able to afford anything for a few months, but when I do have the money, I'll probably go with APS. Many thanks to all those who responded! - John Here's the replies I received: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Aslakson" <aslakson@cs.umn.edu> See my post in comp.sys.mac.hardware. The Tecmar QT-80 sounds nigh well perfect. Except it is about a grand more than you want to spend. Try to get someone to go in with you, if that is possible. The drive is portable. Call Tecmar, tho. They have other systems, and the QT-80 I use predates me in the dept, so maybe I only heard the list price. Tecmar's been great, I recommend them. Tecmar (QT-Backup) 6225 Cochran Road Solon, Ohio 44139 (216) 349-3130 BBS Download: 349-0853 1-800-624-8560 Feel free to contact me with any questions, and I'd like to get a summary of what else you hear. -- Brian Aslakson (This is his post) Subject: Tape backup, Exabyte Keywords: 8mm Backup Exabyte 2.2 Gigs Date: 28 Jan 91 10:20:04 GMT Someone asks about Exabytes on Macs. Tecmar does this. They also have unix software. My rep is checking with their tech people for details for me. I'm pretty sure other companies have Mac Exabyte systems. I use a Tecmar tape backup system that backs up 80 and 120 Meg. For our workstations and mainframe we have a couple Exabytes. I'd like to be able to use an Exabyte on a Mac, and use their software for backing up the unix systems. Their software is nice, it beats the dump script we use on the unix systems (of course! it's Mac!). The way I understand it, Exabyte sells a bare drive, and vendors modify it to suit themselves. Has anyone just hung an a random Exbyte off a random SCSI port (especially a Mac's) and had it work? For what it's worth, Tecmar has been really good about updating their software, and I like their drive well enough. It beats floppies! Brian Aslakson <-= No connection with Tecmar except as a satisfied customer. aslakson@cs.umn.edu mac-admin@cs.umn.edu <-= Macintosh related -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tonyrich@cs.wisc.edu (Anthony Rich) Hi, John. I use a Teac 150 and Retrospect to back up a 300MB hard drive, and it's a great combination. Retrospect is very easy to use. You can get 'way more than 150MB on a tape if you use Retrospect's "compress" option, too, which is nice if and when you upgrade to a larger drive. I don't know anything about the specific Teac unit that APS sells...I put my Teac together from a raw Teac drive & power supply/enclosure a year ago. But APS has gotten such good recommendations from people on the net, I think they'd be worth a try. I don't think you'd be disappointed. I found that blank tape cartridges are available locally for about $18 each. When I assembled my Teac drive last year, the pre-assembled commercial units were selling for about $700 then, and I saved about $150 by putting the Teac together myself. But now that you can get an assembled Teac 150 drive AND Retrospect together for under $650 from APS, that's probably the way to go. Good luck with whatever you decide on! -- Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jacobsen@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU I have had a 150Mb TEAC from APS for about a month. It's great! It comes with Retrospect, which is fantastic (and recommended, regardless of whose drive you buy). One suggestion: don't bother buying extra tapes from APS, who wants $24 for them. Fry's carries them for $21 (last weekend). Also, if you are planning to do serious backup/archiving (more than 1 copy, more than 1 mac, etc) you'll probably want 3 or 4 tapes. Let me know if there are any more questions. Internet: Jacobsen@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu Bitnet: Jacobsen at SLACVM POTS: 415-926-3133 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JACOBSEN%SLACVM.bitnet@lilac.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: johnim@euler.Berkeley.EDU -- 01/28/91 17:38 No problem! 1) I don't know if it has a mirror-image mode - I can't find such a thing in the Retrospect manual. Normally it does a true 'incremental' backup, where any files with different file info (dates, lengths, control bits, etc) are copied out to the tape. A 'snap-shot' is also taken at this time (see below). This mode can be made automatic (at selected days/times, etc) or done manually. You can also user a 'browser' to select more or fewer files to write out - this is most useful in 'Archive' mode, as opposed to 'backup' mode, where you request that just certain files get written. I use this to move data files from one mac to another, where the source is not really in need of a complete backup (or if it is, it's not my problem). In any case, the 'backup' system is remarkably complete and easy. 2,4) Speed: I have a IIci. Backing up 7 meg (a typical week for me) takes the time to fast forward the tape to the end (about 20 meg a minute, it seems), plus the time to write, which with compression is about 2 meg a minute. It's a streamer drive, which means that if the Mac cannot keep up the tape overshoots and has to back up a couple inches, then try again. With compression it just took 11 minutes to back up 6 meg to a half full tape. I usually use the compression, worth about a 1/3 reduction in tape used, but if don't the tape writting rate is about twice as fast. Most of the time is fast motion of the tape, though, so the time saved by not using compression is only a minute or two. All this is just to say that I don't bother with running in the background under MF. I just start it when I want a backup and go get a cup of coffee. It can run while you're doing other stuff, and the other stuff is not really slowed down, but the streamer mechanism slows down a lot due to the continual need to reposition. This is a problem with the TEAC mechanism, not any particular drive. Also, the default is to NOT backup open files (this can be overridden, but that's obviously risky), so the stuff you're working on has to wait for next time anyway. 3) If you do a complete restore of the drive, Retrospect looks at the most recent 'snap-shot' to get a list of files, icon, positions, etc and puts it all back exactly the way it was. Note that these files may be saved from several 'sessions' due to the incremental backup, and may even be on different tapes (one or more tapes may be in a single 'Archive'), but it gets it all right. I've not yet needed to do this, but when I tried it (it's always good to check your backup scheme befor you need it) it worked great. You can also request any file be restored (you select one or more using another 'browser'), from any particular session on the tape. When doing this there are various options about where to restore it - where it was, in an new folder, prompt for a location, etc. I've not asked for 'restore original position', and don't know if the icon location comes back in this case. 5) There's a small fan in the APS drive, that's about as noisy as the IIci fan. I usually keep the drive off and turn it on just when in use. I've not had any problem with turning it on/off while the Mac is up. When running, it sounds like a tape player in fast forward - whirr, whirr, click, whirr. Noticable, but not annoying. When looking at these drives, seperate the software from the drive. Retrospect can't be beat in my opinion - everything I've even thought of is in it, and it works. I've called Dantz Software twice with dumb questions. They were very helpful, and when the guy on the line wasn't sure about how it would work in a certain case they tried it and called me back in an hour. I really cant say enough about it (Incidentally, they're at 1400 Shattuck Ave in Berkeley - if that's not far, maybe they have some literature for you). The APS drive is no better or worse than any other as far as I can tell, and it was the cheapest I found. After all, the mechanical stuff is always made by TEAC - its just the case and supply that the final vendor provides. Best of luck - if I can tell you anything else, just ask. (And if you hear anything I might want to know, please forward) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: austin@spies.sf-bay.org (Glenn Austin) I built my own from the TEAC mechanism and an IBM half-height drive case with power supply and I JUST LOVE THE DRIVE! I built mine for just over $500, of which most of that was for the drive and two tapes. If you want to do something like that, drop me a note and I can forward some instructions to you. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Glenn L. Austin | "Turn too soon, run out of room, | | Auto Racing Enthusiast and | Turn too late, much better fate" | | Macintosh Wizard | - Jim Russell Racing School Instructors | | INET: austin@spies.sf-bay.org | "Drive slower, race faster" - D. Waltrip | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | All opinions stated above are mine -- who else would want them? | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Guevara John -- I got a Teac tape drive from Relax Technologies. I think their current price in MacWeek/MacUser is floating around $500-600. So far no problems with the drive. Price and location of the vendor were constraining factors I used in my purchase. Relax Tech is about 30minutes away from me. I got several recommendations from other users for the drives sold by APS. I think they're selling their Teac 150 for $629 bundled with Retrospect. Good luck in your search. Tape backup is much better than juggling floppies/cartridges. Dave Guevara, Internet: David_Anthony_Guevara@cup.portal.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Robert Wier) John - About 6 months ago I bought the EMAC (Everex) Impact Tape drive which uses the Teac mechanism (160 meg tapes - they look like VERY rugged audio cassettes). This was MacWorld's highest rated unit. It comes with Retrospect. They will give you educational pricing, which makes the unit very attractive. I ended up paying about $700 with delivery from stock. The only thing is they are a little hard to deal with - I had to send them a certified check - they won't take credit cards. The unit has performed flawlessly. The only problem is that the media has been a little hard to find (I can make some suggestions), but it's getting easier. Pay no more than about $14 for a 160 meg tape... Look in MacUser or MacWorld for Everex's phone - or I can dig it out for you... - Bob Wier -------------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ---------- College of Engineering Northern Arizona University / Flagstaff, Arizona Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | BITNET: WIER@NAUVAX | WB5KXH or uucp: ...arizona!naucse!rrw -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cramer%clem@Sun.COM (Sam Cramer) A bunch of people (myself included) homebrewed tape systems using the Teac mechanism. Works great. APS are supposed to be good people. Sam