GHGAQZY@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (Luc Pauwels) (02/21/91)
Is there anybody out there who knows anything about Apple's new bubble-jet printer ? I am very interested in a comparison Apple bubble-jet / HP DeskWriter, but also every other bit of information is welcome. Please reply to GHGAQAY@CC1.KULEUVEN.AC.BE Thanx| Luc Pauwels GHGAQAY@CC1.KULEUVEN.AC.BE GHGAQZY@CC1.KULEUVEN.AC.BE
jonathan@cs.pitt.edu (Jonathan Eunice) (03/01/91)
Luc Pauwels writes:
Is there anybody out there who knows anything about Apple's
new bubble-jet printer ? I am very interested in a comparison
Apple bubble-jet / HP DeskWriter, but also every other bit
of information is welcome.
I don't know about Apple's specifically. I seem to recall Apple was
going to be working with Cannon on it. As a proud owner of a Cannon
BJ-10e Bubblejet printer, I can recommend the technology. It's very
nice print, much better than the HP output I've seen, and surprisingly,
much faster too. It's really like a little, portable laser printer.
Apple's implementation, of course, may be somewhat different.neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) (03/05/91)
>I don't know about Apple's specifically. I seem to recall Apple was >going to be working with Cannon on it. As a proud owner of a Cannon >BJ-10e Bubblejet printer, I can recommend the technology. It's very >nice print, much better than the HP output I've seen, and surprisingly, >much faster too. It's really like a little, portable laser printer. >Apple's implementation, of course, may be somewhat different. I beg to differ. Output quality between the BJ-10e and the DeskWriter are very comparable. One review I read said the BJ-10e had worse output than the DeskJet. Our analysis (under a microscope even) shows print quality is really quite comparable. Remember, both printers will have print quality that varies with paper type. A paper type that gives great print on a DeskJet/DeskWriter could give poorer print on a BJ-10e, and conversely a paper with great output on the BJ-10e might look worse with the same paper on a DeskJet/DeskWriter. This clearly confuses print quality comparisons. As for speed, I don't see how anyone could say the BJ-10e is faster than the DeskJet 500 or the DeskWriter. Maybe its faster than the DeskJet classic -- but that printer is obsolete. From what I have read, the BJ-10E is 50% to 100% slower than the DeskJet 500 (but it does cost a bit less). The DeskJet 500 is VERY fast for graphics. One review even said the DeskJet 500 was faster for graphics than any (non-PostScript) laser printer they reviewed. The DeskWriter is just as fast for graphics as the DeskJet 500. Speed comparisons are confusing. For DOS printers, both text speed and graphics speed need to be compared. But for Mac printers, graphics speed and driver speed are the main issues when scaleable outline fonts are used (io speed is another possible factor but usually isn't the limiting factor). From what I have heard about the new "StyleWriter" (Apple's name), its advantages over the DeskWriter are: 1) It is cheaper (probably about $150 street price cheaper). 2) It comes with True Type fonts for pre-system 7 systems. The DeskWriter uses its own font scaling technology. 3) It is a smaller printer. The advantages of the DeskWriter are: 1) It also supports AppleTalk. From the rumors I have heard the StyleWriter is a serial only printer. 2) I would expect the StyleWriter to be slower than the DeskWriter by the above 50% to 100% -- but on low end Macs, the performance limit is likely to be the driver on the Mac for both printers. On faster Macs I would expect the StyleWriter to be slower. I am just speculating here, of course, based on knowledge of the BJ-10E. Maybe some things have been done to speed it up. Also, maybe the True Type fonts are faster to scale than HP's fonts, so the driver might be faster. Someone needs to do real comparisons between printers taking into account the various Mac platforms and memory configurations. Print quality, consumable cost, and waterfastness of ink is comparable between the two printers from what I have heard. Some other factors to take into account are paper handling (manual paper feed, how many sheets can be held in the tray, envelope feed) and reliability, but I don't know how these factors will compare between the two printers. Dave Neff neff@hpvcfs1.HP.COM
rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) (03/05/91)
In article <1170019@hp-vcd.HP.COM> neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) writes: >read, the BJ-10E is 50% to 100% slower than the DeskJet 500 (but it 50% slower I can believe, but even on one of its worst days, I think Apple would be unlikely to release a printer that's 100% slower than a DeskJet. ;-) (But I might buy it anyway, if it were 100% off list price). -- - Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet or rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu Syracuse U. Physics Dept. or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu "I don't lie. I'm cultivating a reputation for honesty so I can blow it when something big comes along. This ain't it." -- Steven Brust, Phoenix
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (03/06/91)
In article <1170019@hp-vcd.HP.COM> neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) writes: > >From what I have heard about the new "StyleWriter" (Apple's name), >its advantages over the DeskWriter are: > >1) It is cheaper (probably about $150 street price cheaper). And, for some of us, should have a student discount... (hopefully enough that I can afford to get rid of this ImageWriter I, and stop running to the campus lasers whenever I need something other than text) > >2) It comes with True Type fonts for pre-system 7 systems. The DeskWriter >uses its own font scaling technology. Everyone I know who has it uses ATM, so maybe that isn't such an advantage. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus. I mine 600 wells, and whaddo I get? Another day older and deeper in debt! --- Saddam Hussein.
kpottie@icarus.cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Pottie Karl) (03/06/91)
I've seen a picture of the Canon. It's so small and tiny !!! How would it compare with respect to durability to a Deskjet ? What's the MTBF of both machines ?
johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu (Bill Johnston) (03/07/91)
In article <4805@lib.tmc.edu>, drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) writes... >I'm not sure you'll want to get rid of your ImageWriter. [...] >I've heard a rumor ... that it's slower than an ImageWriter. Those considering the StyleWriter or the HP Deskwriter should also be aware that "low-level" printing will be slower and more expensive than with the Imagewriter. The Deskwriter is great for proofing LaserWriter output, but after getting over my amazement at it's quality/price performance I found my self missing the Imagewriter "faster" mode. If you need to dump alot of text, beware! -- Bill Johnston (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu)
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (03/07/91)
Even under university discounts, since the original laserwriter Apple has never released a printer that is price/performance competitive with other printers (laser or dot-matrix) on the market. This is especially true of the recent personal laser printers. HP has a reputation for quality that is unsurpassed throughout the electronics industry. I'm guessing that the price / performance * durability of the deskwriter will remain unsurpassed. What I'm wondering is: (1) What will be the cost of operating a bubblewriter (cents/page ?) (2) Do you think HP might drop the price of a deskwriter when the bubblewriter is released? Don Gillies | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign gillies@cs.uiuc.edu | Digital Computer Lab, 1304 W. Springfield, Urbana IL ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ "UGH! WAR! ... What is it GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!" - the song "WAR" by Edwin Starr, circa 1971 --
cycy@isl1.ri.cmu.edu (Scum) (03/08/91)
In article <46779@nigel.ee.udel.edu>, johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu (Bill Johnston) writes: > more expensive than with the Imagewriter. The Deskwriter is great > for proofing LaserWriter output, but after getting over my amazement > at it's quality/price performance I found my self missing the > Imagewriter "faster" mode. If you need to dump alot of text, beware! But there's a faster mode in on the Deskwriter too! Ar eyou saying the imagewriter's faster mode is faster than the Deskwriter's faster mode? I'm quite happy with the Deskjet, including its speed. -- Chris. -- -- Chris. (cycy@isl1.ri.cmu.edu) "People make me pro-nuclear." -- Margarette Smith
neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) (03/09/91)
>I'm not sure you'll want to get rid of your ImageWriter. I haven't seen a >StyleWriter yet (although I will in about 45 minutes; under >non-disclosure, so please don't bombard me with requests for info), but >I've heard a rumor from a moderately reliable source that it's slower than >an ImageWriter. This sounds unlikely to me, but possible. This seems likely to me in fact. The BJ-10E was probably optimized for text printing on MS-DOS machines. Consider how much data is involved in a page of 360 DPI graphics. Ten inches of such data is about 1.25 meg. It takes allot of time to move that kind of data over the datacom and handle it in the printer (I would expect the BJ to use some data compression of course). And just what serial baud rate is likely to be in the BJ-10E? MS-DOS machines go no faster than 19.2 K baud. I bet the StyleWriter will run at 19.2K baud -- but the DeskWriter goes at 57.6 K baud for serial and at 230K baud for AppleTalk. Good printer performance also requires very fast IO hardware and firmware inside the printer. These are some of the reasons that the DeskJet 500 and the DeskWriter are just as fast (and often faster) than non-PostScript laser printers -- the limit isn't the print engine, but is the datacom rate, the driver speed, and the firmware inside the printer. Thats why I said the Stylewriter will probably be 50% to 100% slower than the DeskWriter. What I meant was I would bet the DeskWriter will print a page AT LEAST 1.5 to 2 times faster than the StyleWriter. I am just speculating based on what I know about the BJ-10E on MS-DOS machines. Maybe something has been done to speed it up, but I doubt it. Of course all speculation will soon be moot as we all start to get our hands on the actual StyleWriter. But based on what I know about the BJ-10E, I wouldn't expect it to be a speed demon -- in fact, it could be quite slow. Dave Neff neff@hpvcfs1.HP.COM