chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (04/03/91)
Has anyone else had problems with a high failure rate with the 1.44 meg disks? Since I switched last year, I have observed a failure rate that's hundreds of times worse than the old 800k! Sometimes a disk would fail within a day of use! Seems to do this regardless if I use generics or name-brand diskettes. I don't think it's my drive because I notice this both at work and at home. -- Ian Chai | "God loves you just the way you are, but Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu | He loves you too much to let you stay that Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax | way." - Harry Poindexter
tmattox@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy I Mattox) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr3.003702.14936@hawk.cs.ukans.edu> chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) writes: >Has anyone else had problems with a high failure rate with the >1.44 meg disks? Yes. DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!! Here at Purdue, we have several Mac labs, with 20-30 Macs each. They are left on most of the day for 5 to 7 days a week. For the Mac IIcx's they act like vacuum cleaners, with the floppy drive being the largest opening on the case directly in-line with the fan. I generally have to try two different machines to get one with a working drive. It seems as if the 1.44 Meg disks are much more sensitive to dusty drives. My question is this: Why did Apple not test these machines in a high dust environment? Or, if they did test them, why did they not include something like a spring loaded door in the front of the drive to keep the dust out? Hey, the actual floppy disk has one, so why not the drive? It is almost pointless to have the shutters on the disks, when the drives they are used in have an ACTIVE mechanism to collect dust (the machine's fan). -- Live long and prosper. - Tim Mattox - (email: tmattox@ecn.purdue.edu) (talk: tmattox@en.ecn.purdue.edu)
pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul Menon) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr3.041443.12295@en.ecn.purdue.edu>, tmattox@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy I Mattox) writes: > In article <1991Apr3.003702.14936@hawk.cs.ukans.edu> chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) writes: > >Has anyone else had problems with a high failure rate with the > >1.44 meg disks? > Yes. > > DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!! > Here at Purdue, we have several Mac labs, with 20-30 Macs each. > They are left on most of the day for 5 to 7 days a week. > For the Mac IIcx's they act like vacuum cleaners, with the floppy drive > being the largest opening on the case directly in-line with the fan. > I generally have to try two different machines to get one with a working drive. > > It seems as if the 1.44 Meg disks are much more sensitive to dusty drives. Err, I might have something to refute this. We also had really bad experiences with the 1.44 MByte floppy disks and drives. They appeared to flake it when either .. * files on the floppy had to be replaced (a common situation if they are used as 'shuttles' or 'archives') or * a large number of files exist on the floppy or * a large number of files are being copied to the floppy or * a combination of the three. What really shook me was that IT WASN'T A TERMINAL HARDWARE (FLOPPY) PROBLEM!! * The MultiFinder still cannot cope with copying large numbers of files at a time. Yes, I know - increase the mem given to the finder, but still those (Sorry, read error, cancel/continue???) rather silly messages crop up. It's usually after this that the problems start - the typical message being something like 'This is not a Mac Disk, initialize/eject??'. No amount of coaxing the Mac (or should I say 'FInder') to accept this disk as is works. * Take any reasonable Disk Copying program (try Apple's DiskCopy, it may also work) which overrides the default System 'eject/init' joke and format the disk. It Works!!! Conclusion - The moronic Finder/MultiFinder/System is the cause of these woes. It cannot even reformat a zonked floppy after it's been through the mill (as described above), EVEN THOUGH MOST OTHER FORMATTING UTILITIES LET YOU! You do not have unusable, faulty disks: don't throw them away like I did. You can still re-format them. You just can't use the dopey default mechanism. I cannot point to the original cause of this problem. It may be marginal specs, but I suspect the Finder/MutliFinder/System combo because of its inability to even copy large numbers of files twixt hard drives successfully. I suspect it leaves the floppy in an aborted mess after such a failure. Maybe this is fixed in System 7 - if not there's always System 25 - some of us may still be alive. Paul Menon, Dept of Computer Science, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, 124 Latrobe Street, Melbourne 3001, Victoria, Australia. pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au PH: +61 3 660 3209
norton@extro.ucc.su.oz.au (Norton Chia) (04/03/91)
It is interesting that the responses for bad HD floppies is due to dust and Finder limitations. While I agree with both reasons to varying degrees, I must say that the disks themselves do come into the equation as well. I used the following brands of HD floppies from memory, apart from the odd no-name brands: Maxell, Sony, Memorex and possibly a couple of Fuji's. Of the mentioned brands, I had the highest failure rate with Maxells, often impossible to re-initialize within a month. The Sony's gave the highest satisfaction. Although I have access to free fresh floppies, I still prefer to buy Sony regarding reliability. I go through a good number of floppies, both DD and HD. HD floppies seem to fail more frequently than DD. Again, Sony is the best performer of the disks I used, but the others are not really that far behind. I think I went through in the past year or so, 30 odd Maxell HD's where about half of them failed to be re-initialized properly. I've used about 20 Memorex's or more with the odd one or two, and possibly one Sony that was a close call. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention this so that the disk manufacturers can't blame everyone else. I have nothing to do with Sony, in fact, my Sony Diskman just broke down a week ago :) Norton -- <<<< My employers ignore me, I'm on my own when I speak out in public :^( >>>> < Norton Chia | Mail me on norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU APPLELINK:AUST0240 > < Micro Support | "There are only 3 types of people in the world: > < Uni of Sydney | Those who can count, and those who can't" >
chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (04/04/91)
> DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!!
Is there a solution? I once heard of people taking dustbuster
minivacuums to their Pluses... does this sound like a good
thing to do to an SE or IIx?
Ian
--
Ian Chai | "God loves you just the way you are, but
Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu | He loves you too much to let you stay that
Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax | way." - Harry Poindexterds4a@dalton.acc.Virginia.EDU (Dale Southard) (04/04/91)
In article <1991Apr3.041443.12295@en.ecn.purdue.edu> tmattox@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy I Mattox) writes: >In article <1991Apr3.003702.14936@hawk.cs.ukans.edu> chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) writes: >>Has anyone else had problems with a high failure rate with the >>1.44 meg disks? >Yes. > >DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!! > >[some observations about dust ect] > >It seems as if the 1.44 Meg disks are much more sensitive to dusty drives. > Yep, I have noticed the dust = disk err problem on my SE/30. I bought a "Duskette 3.5" from Veino Ventures about 3 months ago and I haven't had a disk error since. Best $6.95 I have spent in a while! Veino Ventures can be reached at 1-800-926-7577 if anyone is interested. The duskette is just a molded rubber "plug" that can be inserted into a drive to prevent dust from being sucked in. They also make a locking version. I have also found a vacum to do a good job of removing dust from drives/ keyboards -- assuming your vacuum isn't strong enough to suck in the whole mac :-). Oh, I have no connections w/Veino Ventures or the Regina Inc. --> --> Dale UVa (ds4a@virginia.edu)
jgs@merit.edu (John Scudder) (04/04/91)
In article <1991Apr3.182729.29723@hawk.cs.ukans.edu> chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) writes: >> DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!! > >Is there a solution? I once heard of people taking dustbuster >minivacuums to their Pluses... does this sound like a good >thing to do to an SE or IIx? > >Ian I don't know about the vacuum cleaners, but if you don't have this problem yet and want to avoid it, you can use the following hi-tech solution: Tape a bit of paper to the front of your Mac such that it hangs down in front of the drive and blocks air (and dust) flow into the drive. When you want to insert a disk, flip your paper 'door' up. Cheers, --John -- ** John Scudder ** Merit/NSFNET ** jgs@merit.edu ** no amusing quote ** ** Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not Merit. **
kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) (04/04/91)
I've noticed that many of my HD disks cannot be successfully reformatted. So instead of erasing them with the menu command, i select all & then drag to the trash (or more likely, erase with DiskTop, which simply clears the directory...) I never reformat a floppy (either kind) any more. -- ...kiran __________kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu________(812) 331-1710 From the corrections column in a July Fresno, CA _Bee_: "An item in Thursday's [issue] about the Massachusetts budget crisis made reference to new taxes that will help put Massachusetts 'back in the African-American.' The item should have said 'back in the black.'"
hoepfner@gsfc.nasa.gov (Patrick Hoepfner) (04/05/91)
jgs@merit.edu (John Scudder) writes: >In article <1991Apr3.182729.29723@hawk.cs.ukans.edu> chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) writes: >>> DUST DUST DUST!!!!!!! >> >>Is there a solution? I once heard of people taking dustbuster >>minivacuums to their Pluses... does this sound like a good >>thing to do to an SE or IIx? >> >>Ian >I don't know about the vacuum cleaners, but if you don't have this problem >yet and want to avoid it, you can use the following hi-tech solution: >Tape a bit of paper to the front of your Mac such that it hangs down >in front of the drive and blocks air (and dust) flow into the drive. When >you want to insert a disk, flip your paper 'door' up. This floppy door is a good idea for the IIci and IIcx hich sucks air through the floppy opening. The SE and SE/30 are a little different in that the fan does not suck air through the floppy hole. These will collect furr balls though and can be vacuumed regularily. -- +--------------------------+---------------------------------------+ / Patrick Hoepfner | NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center \ / America Online: PatrickH9 | Internet: hoepfner@heasfs.gsfc.nasa.gov \ +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------+