kenney@hsi86.hsi.com (Brian Kenney) (05/21/91)
In article <5133@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> sho@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto) writes: >* One bomb. The new finder lets you open up old systems as suitcases, > but it seems to crash when you try to do something to it. I tried > opening my 6.0.5 system file and pull out a font, and the machine > hung. I was able to succesfully do this on an SE with a System file from 6.0.7. System 7 is very well done! Thanks to Mark Johnson et. al. for being able to ftp! But Sys7 is ssssllllloooowww on an SE - I may be looking at the SE -> SE/30 upgrade. Have the prices of 3rd party accelerators come down in the wake of Apple's price drop? Seems kind of crazy to buy a card for $500, when you can get the whole motherboard swapped for $999. Any info out there? -Bri -- Brian Kenney kenney@hsi.com 3M Health Information Systems Wallingford, CT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "It's not innovation... but it's close."
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (05/25/91)
Yes, system 7.0 is sllllooooooow! I'd say it's noticeably slower on a Mac II. Those of you SE/Classic owners thinking of upgrading -- consider a 25Mhz board or better yet, an 040 CPU. The most irritating thing is that boot time seems to have increased by 5-10 seconds at least. This will not be good for people developing software. Don Gillies | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign gillies@cs.uiuc.edu | Digital Computer Lab, 1304 W. Springfield, Urbana IL --
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May25.013620.26769@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: |> Yes, system 7.0 is sllllooooooow! I'd say it's noticeably slower on a |> Mac II. Those of you SE/Classic owners thinking of upgrading -- |> consider a 25Mhz board or better yet, an 040 CPU. The most irritating |> thing is that boot time seems to have increased by 5-10 seconds at |> least. This will not be good for people developing software. I don't notice any particular slowdown on my mere sub-16MHz IIcx, barring movement of icons in the Finder and maybe a few things I don't do often. Boot time doesn't seem to have changed noticeably. I've heard this complaint about sluggishness though from a Classic owner. I wonder if some machines are hit more than others. Could it be that some optimizations were made for 68030 or colour machines, that don't help the lesser models? -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
sticklen@pleiades.cps.msu.edu (05/28/91)
In article <1991May25.052620.23582@neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) writes: >In article <1991May25.013620.26769@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: >|> Yes, system 7.0 is sllllooooooow! I'd say it's noticeably slower on a >|> Mac II. Those of you SE/Classic owners thinking of upgrading -- >|> consider a 25Mhz board or better yet, an 040 CPU. The most irritating >|> thing is that boot time seems to have increased by 5-10 seconds at >|> least. This will not be good for people developing software. > >I don't notice any particular slowdown on my mere sub-16MHz >IIcx, barring movement of icons in the Finder and maybe a few >things I don't do often. Boot time doesn't seem to have changed >noticeably. I've heard this complaint about sluggishness though >from a Classic owner. I wonder if some machines are hit more >than others. Could it be that some optimizations were made for >68030 or colour machines, that don't help the lesser models? >-- >Philip Machanick >philip@pescadero.stanford.edu > my 2cents worth... on my IIci, Sys 7 seems to me to be quite a bit faster, especially for bootup, and for anything having to do with the finder. yes, i know this is against prevailing opinion. maybe it has to do with my old 6.0.3 system getting too big - ie, now i have done an enforced housecleaning. but whatever the reason, the Sys 7 i now have seems to me to be faster. ---jon---
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May25.052620.23582@neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.stanford.edu writes: >In article <1991May25.013620.26769@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: >|[slowdown of 7.0] > >I don't notice any particular slowdown on my mere sub-16MHz >IIcx, barring movement of icons in the Finder and maybe a few >things I don't do often. Boot time doesn't seem to have changed >noticeably. I've heard this complaint about sluggishness though >from a Classic owner. I wonder if some machines are hit more >than others. Could it be that some optimizations were made for >68030 or colour machines, that don't help the lesser models? >-- >Philip Machanick On my SE/30, things are not bad either. Color slows things down slightly, but that is not a problem. B&W is always there if I need the little extra speed. With regard to boot time, I do notice that there is a slightly longer delay after the "Debugger Installed" message appears in the startup DSAT. Has anyone else noticed this? Configuration: Mac SE/30, 8MB RAM, internal (7.0 boot disk) 105MB Quantum Pro (SCSI 6), external 105MB Conner (SCSI 4), 3M DC-2000 Tape drive (SCSI 1), RasterOps 264/30, Seiko CM1445C monitor. -- | Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company, 3M Center, 235-3F-27 | | Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 .-----------------------------------| | => pejacoby@3m.com | I am _not_ the editor of | | (612) 737-3211 | the Radio Times. |
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (05/29/91)
Ok, here's where system 7.0 seems slow to me:
(1) Boot from a 6.x floppy, then reboot 7.0. System 7.0 insists on
rebuilding the desktop. It draws the window frame, then waits a
generous 15-20 seconds, and then puts up the message:
"Rebuilding Desktop"
with a line chart and cancel button, then proceeds to rebuild the
desktop. By the way, "cancel" is a farce, because system 7.0 will
attempt to rebuild the desktop over and over and over and over
until you finally let if finish without hitting "cancel", in
subsequent boots.
(2) After quitting an application, my machine often experiences
a 5-10 second pause before the multifinder windows are drawn.
During the pause the hard disk is spinning like crazy, even if
the exitting program had no useful data to write to the disk. In
system 6.x, Every application closed in 1-2 seconds. This is half
an order of magnitude of slow-down.
(3) At boot time, the menu bar is drawn, the finder is launched,
my superclock INIT starts, and then there is a long pause and
finally multifinder starts up, bumping the clock leftwards by
2 icons. The long pause can take 4-8 seconds.
(4) Particularly irritating is that the finder loses keys when you
quit an application. I can no longer type apple-q, apple-q to
quit my application and turn off the machine, because the new
finder drops the second keypress (apple-q is the key-equivalent
to shutdown on my machine). I type apple-q, wait, wait, wait,
apple-q.
My system is:
-------------
Mac II
apple pmmu
CMS-80 Q280 5" 80 megabyte disk drive
(identical to apple HD80, 28ms access time)
5Mb DRAM
Apple 8-bit color video card
Keyboard, mouse
-- philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May28.202601.16444@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: |> (4) Particularly irritating is that the finder loses keys when you |> quit an application. I can no longer type apple-q, apple-q to |> quit my application and turn off the machine, because the new |> finder drops the second keypress (apple-q is the key-equivalent |> to shutdown on my machine). I type apple-q, wait, wait, wait, |> apple-q. Try this: click on the desktop and then type your shortcut for Shutdown. Let the system tell all your apps to quit. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
glenn@gla-aux.uucp (Glenn Austin) (05/29/91)
In article <1991May25.013620.26769@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: > Yes, system 7.0 is sllllooooooow! I'd say it's noticeably slower on a > Mac II. Those of you SE/Classic owners thinking of upgrading -- > consider a 25Mhz board or better yet, an 040 CPU. I don't think there will be that many '040s for Plus/SE/Classics, but TOTAL SYSTEMS (yes, they want in in all caps) have 25, 33, and 40MHz 030s for all those machines, and provide Virtual with the boards, so you can break the 4MB limit. And yes, the newer boards support 4MB SIMMs, the older Geminis support 4MB SIMMs with some patches to the board. =============================================================================== | Glenn L. Austin | "Turn too soon, run out of room. | | Macintosh Wizard and | Turn too late, much better fate." | | Auto Racing Driver | -- Jim Russell Racing School Instructors | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Don't take me too seriously -- I never do! :-) | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Usenet: glenn@gla-aux.uucp or glenn%gla-aux.uucp@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu | ===============================================================================
pophal@nicmad.UUCP (Gerry Pophal) (06/01/91)
In article <1991May25.013620.26769@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: >Yes, system 7.0 is sllllooooooow! I'd say it's noticeably slower on a >Mac II. Those of you SE/Classic owners thinking of upgrading -- >consider a 25Mhz board or better yet, an 040 CPU. The most irritating >thing is that boot time seems to have increased by 5-10 seconds at >least. This will not be good for people developing software. > > >Don Gillies | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign >gillies@cs.uiuc.edu | Digital Computer Lab, 1304 W. Springfield, Urbana IL > >-- I just called Total Systems Integration about the Gemini 030 accelerator we bought. When I purchased it they promised system 7 compatability and virtual memory. They are working on a system 7 compatable INIT called Gemstart 2.0. They think they will charge me shipping to get it when it is available in July. Connectix is working on a Gemini/System 7 compatable version of virtual that will also be available in July. Although they promised me virtual memory when I bought the board and they now include it (non S7 compatable) with new boards they don't think they are responsible supplying me with it. Some upgrade. -- UUCP:harvard-\ att--\ | Sysop Mad Mac BBS(608)221-3841 ucbvax!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!pophal | Gerry Pophal(608)271-3333ext2091 rutgers--/ rolls--/ | Nicolet Instrument Corp. ames--/ decvax-/ | Madison, Wis 53711-0451