nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (06/07/91)
Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping
of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly
stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then
out again.
Reason I ask is that my machine has been doing this, off and on, for months.
It's been in for fixing three times, this last time for over a week, and
the engineers can't reproduce the problem. When I get it back I expect it'll
behave for a few weeks and then start doing it again.
The problem seems to be brought on by (internal) HD activity - might it be
something to do with the power supply and/or my mains supply? I'll try a
line conditioner to see if this has any effect.
Just wanted to mention it in case anybody else has seen this symptom and can
tell me it's not all in my imagination...
Nick.
--
Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh.
nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick
~~~ "The tabla is an organic instrument. We use the hammer for tuning. ~~~
~~~ And also for teaching." ~~~afry@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Alan R. Fry) (06/07/91)
In article <12163@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk:> nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk writes:
:>Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping
:>of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly
:>stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then
:>out again.
:>
:>Reason I ask is that my machine has been doing this, off and on, for months.
:>It's been in for fixing three times, this last time for over a week, and
:>the engineers can't reproduce the problem. When I get it back I expect it'll
:>behave for a few weeks and then start doing it again.
:>
:>The problem seems to be brought on by (internal) HD activity - might it be
:>something to do with the power supply and/or my mains supply? I'll try a
:>line conditioner to see if this has any effect.
:>
:>Just wanted to mention it in case anybody else has seen this symptom and can
:>tell me it's not all in my imagination...
:>
:> Nick.
:>
I had this very same problem when I installed a 105 meg quantum in my
SE/30. The disk access flickering was very reproducible in my case, and
damn annoying. I took it in to the idiot who installed it, and he
'figgered' it was something wrong with the hd. I didn't buy it, so I called
the company that sold it to me, and they didn't know what the problem was
either, so I called another company. I finally found someone who knew what
the hell he was talking about, and he explained that in certain SE/30's,
stray magnetic and electric fields from the hd can interfere with the video
card for the built in monitor. He wasn't sure just what the cause was, but
he thought it was probably the fault of the unshielded video card.
Anyway, his suggestion was to take the drive and rotate it 180 degrees in
the mount, so that you have to run the scsi cable underneath the drive to
attach to the logic board. I asked the Certified Idiot Apple Dealer to do
so for me, and he said that he didn't think it was possible, so I took it to
another dealer who promptly did so. It worked!! The flickering was almost
entirely gone. There is still a tiny bit (on the lower right hand side of
the screen), but it is pretty unnoticable, and much better than before.
From the description of your problem, it might be worth trying, just to see
if it becomes any better or worse. I have heard of people trying to shield
either the drive or the video card with sheet metal (aluminum foil doesn't
seem to work), but I'm not sure if I'd recommend that.
Good luck, and let me know how it goes,
Alan
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Alan R Fry | You know what I hate?
afry@uhura.cc.rochester.edu | Rhetorical questions
--------------------------------------------------------------elliott@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (James Elliott) (06/09/91)
In <12163@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) writes: >Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping >of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly >stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then >out again. Yes, actually, I've begun to get concerned about this problem myslf. Strangely enough, after the monitor has been on for about half an hour the problem stops. I don't know whether it's the fault of my external HD or my external video card. I'd like to get the problem fixed while I'm still under warranty, but dread the thought of going without my mac for a large period of time, and wonder what the service people will say about the fact that I installed my own SIMMs and external video card... Of course, the problem will probable be irreproducible at the service center anyway... -- Jim Elliott "Like a bridge he'll come between us, not a wall" elliott@veronica.cs.wisc.edu
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (06/10/91)
Another way to suppress stray electromagnetic activity is to take the offending part (in this case, the hard disk) and enclose it completely inside a metal shield (like tin foil). I AM NOT recommending this, merely pointing it out, since it may cause you hard disk to overheat and fail. However, if you think it can be shielded or at least partially shielded without leading to overheating problems, then you may want to try this method. Make sure to test it before you bolt everything back together. In any event, foil could probably be used briefly to determine that the electromagnetic interference was coming from your hard disk. Make sure you don't short anything out with the tin foil. --
afry@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Alan R. Fry) (06/10/91)
In article <1991Jun9.202517.14662@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes:
:>Another way to suppress stray electromagnetic activity is to take the
:>offending part (in this case, the hard disk) and enclose it completely
:>inside a metal shield (like tin foil). I AM NOT recommending this,
:>merely pointing it out, since it may cause you hard disk to overheat
:>and fail. However, if you think it can be shielded or at least
:>partially shielded without leading to overheating problems, then you
:>may want to try this method. Make sure to test it before you bolt
:>everything back together. In any event, foil could probably be used
:>briefly to determine that the electromagnetic interference was coming
:>from your hard disk. Make sure you don't short anything out with the
:>tin foil.
I responded to the original poster in this thread by e-mail, and my advice
was to simply re-orient the drive in the drive bracket.
I had the same flickering problem with my Quantum 105 (it was much worse
than the original poster's description of his problem), and the eventual
solution was to merely rotate the drive 180 degrees (so that I had to run
the scsi cable underneath the drive between the drive and bracket). There
is still a very tiny flicker, but this seems to have solved the problem.
Perhaps another orientation (of the four possible orientaions, i.e.
controller card up/down with drive backwards/forwards) would work even
better.
I have heard of people using sheet metal to isolate the drive from the video
card (which seems to be the culprit in all of this flickering business). I
have also heard that aluminum foil does not work well. And the point you
made about over heating is certainly valid. Anyway, I think re-orienting
the drive is a bit more practical (if it works!).
Cheers,
Alan
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan R Fry | Graffiti on a condom machine in San Fran:
afry@uhura.cc.rochester.edu | "Don't buy this gum, it tastes like old tires"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun8.223327.25416@spool.cs.wisc.edu> elliott@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (James Elliott) writes: >In <12163@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) writes: > >>Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping >>of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly >>stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then >>out again. > >Yes, actually, I've begun to get concerned about this problem myslf. >Strangely enough, after the monitor has been on for about half an hour >the problem stops. I don't know whether it's the fault of my external Oh, this is weird, too weird. I am just now starting to have some problems with MY SE/30 video setup! It can't be the Ides of March; after all, it's June... :-) I have an SE/30 with a RasterOps 264/30 24-bit video card. I just recently swapped my internal 40 meg Sony drive out for a Quantum PRO 105 megger. Now, on occassion, when starting the machine up, it goes into a try-to-boot/reboot/try-to-boot cycle. When this happens, the RasterOps logo comes up on my external monitor, accompanied by a lot of BLUE NOISE--horizontal blue bars at random locations all over the screen. If I let the machine sit, it will do the reboot-thing for quite a while. Each time, the RasterOps card repaints the whole logo, and the blue bars are there. Eventually, I get tired of it and hit the Programmers switch. Sad Mac! Code 000F 0013 or something similar. Hitting the Reset switch makes the machine boot properly! After getting a good boot from the reset switch, all is well, and life is happy. Note that often I will boot just fine the first time; no delays, no reboot, no blue bars on the monitor. Any ideas? SE/30, System 7.0, RasterOps 264/30 (rom v1.3), Quantum PRO 105 (can't recall the ROM on it; I think "A.5"?), external Conner 105, Seiko CM1445C monitor. -- | Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company, 3M Center, 235-3F-27 | | Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 .-----------------------------------| | => pejacoby@3m.com | I am _not_ the editor of | | (612) 737-3211 | the Radio Times. |
pizza@leland.Stanford.EDU (Pete Richards) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun10.194731.5008@mmm.serc.3m.com> pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) writes: >In article <1991Jun8.223327.25416@spool.cs.wisc.edu> elliott@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (James Elliott) writes: >>In <12163@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) writes: >> >>>Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping >>>of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly >>>stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then >>>out again. >> >>Yes, actually, I've begun to get concerned about this problem myslf. >>Strangely enough, after the monitor has been on for about half an hour >>the problem stops. I don't know whether it's the fault of my external > >Oh, this is weird, too weird. I am just now starting to have some >problems with MY SE/30 video setup! It can't be the Ides of March; >after all, it's June... :-) > > I have an SE/30 with a RasterOps 264/30 24-bit video card. I just > recently swapped my internal 40 meg Sony drive out for a Quantum PRO > 105 megger. Now, on occassion, when starting the machine up, it goes > into a try-to-boot/reboot/try-to-boot cycle. When this happens, the > RasterOps logo comes up on my external monitor, accompanied by a lot > of BLUE NOISE--horizontal blue bars at random locations all over the > screen. If I let the machine sit, it will do the reboot-thing for > quite a while. Each time, the RasterOps card repaints the whole logo, > and the blue bars are there. > > Eventually, I get tired of it and hit the Programmers switch. Sad Mac! Code > 000F 0013 or something similar. Hitting the Reset switch makes the > machine boot properly! After getting a good boot from the reset > switch, all is well, and life is happy. > > Note that often I will boot just fine the first time; no delays, no > reboot, no blue bars on the monitor. Any ideas? > > SE/30, System 7.0, RasterOps 264/30 (rom v1.3), Quantum PRO 105 (can't > recall the ROM on it; I think "A.5"?), external Conner 105, Seiko > CM1445C monitor. > > >-- >| Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company, 3M Center, 235-3F-27 | >| Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 .-----------------------------------| >| => pejacoby@3m.com | I am _not_ the editor of | >| (612) 737-3211 | the Radio Times. | Regarding the stretching of pixels at the top and bottom of the screen: I had a similar problem last year on an old Mac 512--The bottom and top maybe 1/4 inch of the screen scooted in and out toward the center. It finally got so bad I took it in for professional help--The power supply needed to be re- placed. Whether or not the power supply problem is the same in an SE30 I can't say but that may be your problem.
flowers@caltech.edu (Dave Flowers) (06/11/91)
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) writes: > I have an SE/30 with a RasterOps 264/30 24-bit video card. I just > recently swapped my internal 40 meg Sony drive out for a Quantum PRO > 105 megger. Now, on occassion, when starting the machine up, it goes > into a try-to-boot/reboot/try-to-boot cycle. When this happens, the > RasterOps logo comes up on my external monitor, accompanied by a lot > of BLUE NOISE--horizontal blue bars at random locations all over the > screen. If I let the machine sit, it will do the reboot-thing for > quite a while. Each time, the RasterOps card repaints the whole logo, > and the blue bars are there. > Eventually, I get tired of it and hit the Programmers switch. Sad Mac! Code > 000F 0013 or something similar. Hitting the Reset switch makes the > machine boot properly! After getting a good boot from the reset > switch, all is well, and life is happy. > Note that often I will boot just fine the first time; no delays, no > reboot, no blue bars on the monitor. Any ideas? I have no idea why the problem is irratic, but I think I do know what's wrong - you hard drive is flaky. Recently, my mac refused to boot - it displayed a disk with a very slowly flashing question mark icon. I took the drive out (the 40M that came with the mac) and put it back in, and it worked fine. (During testing, I noted that I didn't get a whine from the hard drive when I turned the computer on - my guess is the drive wasn't getting power, for whatever reason, and when I took it out and put it back in I reonnected the power.) I also got a Sad Mac! code 000F 0013 upon hitting the Programmer's switch. Hope this helps. Dave Flowers
nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (06/11/91)
Thanks for all the feedback, folks.
I suspect a cold solder joint in the video circuitry, actually. My machine
is fine now, but the screen problem happens sporadically after an hour or
two to warm up. It was happening last summer, was fine over the winter, and
then happened again a couple of weeks ago during a hot spell. It's probable
the dealer couldn't find the problem because (a) the machine was in an
air-conditioned room or (b) they were running it with the top off...
A friend has exactly this problem with his Mac Plus...
Now, how to get the problem to manifest itself in front of a technician...
Nick.
--
Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh.
nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick
~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
<-- WEST VIEWING ROOM EAST VIEWING ROOM -->stevel@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Steve Ligett) (06/11/91)
In article <14394@ur-cc.UUCP> afry@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Alan R. Fry) writes: >In article <12163@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk:> nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk writes: >:>Any other SE/30 owners had the following problem? A sporadic flickering/jumping >:>of the screen: the top and bottom few pixel rows of the screen suddenly >:>stretch, and the stretched regions drift inward toward the centre and then >:>out again. >I had this very same problem when I installed a 105 meg quantum in my >SE/30. The disk access flickering was very reproducible in my case, and >damn annoying. I took it in to the idiot who installed it, and he >'figgered' it was something wrong with the hd... This is frequently a problem when hard drives are installed on top of two floppy drives in SEs; in that case, the drive is almost *inside* the CRT. In an SE/30, there is more room above the floppy drive, so it's less frequent. With 3rd party mounting brackets, the drive is usually farther back than with Apple's, under the neck of the CRT, so it's much closer to that circuit board than an Apple drive would be. I've never played around to see whether the interference is with the circuit board. >...suggestion was to take the drive and rotate it 180 degrees in >the mount, so that you have to run the scsi cable underneath the drive to >attach to the logic board. I asked the Certified Idiot Apple Dealer to do >so for me, and he said that he didn't think it was possible, so I took it to >another dealer who promptly did so. Well, the Dealer should have been a little more ambitious and looked, but he was probably right that it could not be turned around using Apple brackets and cables. We've done it sometimes with drives that have the Questronex bracket (from Argentina), but it's going to depend on what you've got for cables. For those kits that mount the drive "right side up", it gets rid of an awkward twist in the SCSI cable. We frequently have to punch additional screw holes in the brackets to be able to mount the drives in a way that's satisfactory. Not all dealers are comfortable with these hacks; they'd prefer to just do things the Apple way. This reduces their risk, but may be reducing their customer base and profits too. We keep a supply of brackets, cables and connectors around so the we can accomodate the more adventuresome users. -- steve.ligett@dartmouth.edu or ...!dartvax!steve.ligett