pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) (06/25/91)
I'm presently looking at a 2Mb Mac LC with VRAM upgrade and extended keyboard. I'd like to purchase it before school starts up in September, but before I do so I need many questions answered. Answer as many questions as you want. Any and all help will be appreciated. 1) What's this rumor I hear about a 68030 Mac LC? Is this likely? If so, when? 2.) The LC is listed as having a 16MHz, 32-bit CPU. 32-bit what? Data bus? Address bus? Is this thing more like a MSDOS 286, 386SX, or 386DX? 3.) If I only have 2Mb and System 7.0 needs 2Mb, how big of a file will I be able to handle in Word 4.0? Will I be able to copy small picts from other applications to a Word document? 4.) I will be purchasing a MSDOS machine and would like to use either the NEC 3D or Sony 1304 with it. These monitors are multisync monitors and are advertised as being compatible with various MSDOS video standards and Mac II video. Does this mean that they will work with the LC also? Both have options that are needed to interface them with Mac's. What are they? How much more do they add to the purchase price? 5.) I've seen lots of cards to increase the number of colors available to Mac II's. What about increasing their resolution to 800x600? 6.) Will a LC shutdown like a Mac II. Will the monitor shut off with it? Can the LC be turned back on via the keyboard? 7.) Can I use my 40Mb HD and 3.5" FD with the IIe card? Will I be able to use the LC's modem and printer interfaces with it? Is a IIGS card on the way? 8.) Are there any developers working on an FPU or PMMU for the LC? If so, will you still be able to use the IIe card? 9.) What sort of MSDOS emulation options are available for the LC (speed is no concern)? How much? 10.) Laser printers. How many inexpensive laser printers used in the MSDOS world are compatible with Mac's? Are there any that can interface with both at the same time? What's so great about postscripts if I would be happy with 2 pages/minute? Will I be able to print up a document with both text and graphics on a printer without postscripts? How 'bout on a printer that is not designed specifically for the Mac? Hope you can answer some of these questions. Thanks in advance
prw@Apple.COM (Paul Wenker) (06/26/91)
Here are a few answers... In article <13375@uwm.edu> pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) writes: >6.) Will a LC shutdown like a Mac II. Will the monitor shut off with it? >Can the LC be turned back on via the keyboard? No, no, and no. >7.) Can I use my 40Mb HD and 3.5" FD with the IIe card? Will I be able to >use the LC's modem and printer interfaces with it? Is a IIGS card on the way? Yes, yes, and [standard unannounced product disclaimer]. >8.) Are there any developers working on an FPU or PMMU for the LC? If so, >will you still be able to use the IIe card? I have seen cards which include an FPU and/or a 68030. However, since there is only one slot, you can't use them with the Apple IIe Card. >9.) What sort of MSDOS emulation options are available for the LC (speed is >no concern)? How much? There is a program called SoftPC. Looked pretty slick to me, but I don't recall the price. -Paul Wenker -Apple Computer, Inc.
yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) (06/26/91)
In article <13375@uwm.edu> pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) writes: | 2.) The LC is listed as having a 16MHz, 32-bit CPU. 32-bit what? Data | bus? Address bus? Is this thing more like a MSDOS 286, 386SX, or 386DX? | 32 bit CPU (i.e. 68020) and 16 bit data path | 3.) If I only have 2Mb and System 7.0 needs 2Mb, how big of a file will I be | able to handle in Word 4.0? Will I be able to copy small picts from other | applications to a Word document? | Don't know, but you should buy more memory. I have 4meg in my LC (running system 7.0) and that's just enough memory to display a few 256 color GIF files simultaneously. | 4.) I will be purchasing a MSDOS machine and would like to use either the | NEC 3D or Sony 1304 with it. These monitors are multisync monitors and are | advertised as being compatible with various MSDOS video standards and Mac II | video. Does this mean that they will work with the LC also? Both have | options that are needed to interface them with Mac's. What are they? How | much more do they add to the purchase price? | Yes, they should work with the LC. I think all you need are Mac cables. No 'special' interface needed. MCCC (313-941-6500) has cable for both of these monitors. | 5.) I've seen lots of cards to increase the number of colors available to | Mac II's. What about increasing their resolution to 800x600? | The VRAM upgrade should give you 256 color on the 13" HiRes monitor. | 6.) Will a LC shutdown like a Mac II. Will the monitor shut off with it? | Can the LC be turned back on via the keyboard? | No. No. and No. ... | | Hope you can answer some of these questions. Thanks in advance | =Mike -- == Michael K. Yee <yee@osf.org> -+- OSF/Motif Team == Open Software Foundation - 11 Cambridge Center - Cambridge, MA 02142 == "Live simply, so that others may simply live."
raoul@seattleu.edu (06/26/91)
> >9.) What sort of MSDOS emulation options are available for the LC (speed is > >no concern)? How much? > > There is a program called SoftPC. Looked pretty slick to me, but I don't > recall the price. Soft PC works but it is my experience that it is very very very slow! I would only purchace it if there was no other way to do a job (custom software, etc) Jeff -- The 23:00 News and Mail Service - +1 206 292 9048 - Seattle, WA USA PEP, V.32, V.42 +++ A Waffle Iron, Model 1.64 +++
stanger@otago.ac.nz (Nigel Stanger) (06/26/91)
In article <13375@uwm.edu>, pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) writes: > I'm presently looking at a 2Mb Mac LC with VRAM upgrade and extended keyboard. > I'd like to purchase it before school starts up in September, but before I do > so I need many questions answered. Answer as many questions as you want. Any > and all help will be appreciated. > > 1) What's this rumor I hear about a 68030 Mac LC? Is this likely? If so, > when? Probably. Maybe. Who knows?? (I hope so :-) > 2.) The LC is listed as having a 16MHz, 32-bit CPU. 32-bit what? Data > bus? Address bus? Is this thing more like a MSDOS 286, 386SX, or 386DX? Both data and address (internally, at least). The 68020 is a 32-bit processor. However, the external address and data busses (sp?) are only 16-bit, which means the CPU has to make two accesses to retrieve something from memory. In theory this makes the thing twice as slow as a machine with a full 32-bit bus, but it doesn't seem that way from experience. > 3.) If I only have 2Mb and System 7.0 needs 2Mb, how big of a file will I be > able to handle in Word 4.0? Will I be able to copy small picts from other > applications to a Word document? Pass. > 4.) I will be purchasing a MSDOS machine and would like to use either the > NEC 3D or Sony 1304 with it. These monitors are multisync monitors and are > advertised as being compatible with various MSDOS video standards and Mac II > video. Does this mean that they will work with the LC also? Both have > options that are needed to interface them with Mac's. What are they? How > much more do they add to the purchase price? The NEC Multisync 3D should work with the LC. All you need is the correct cable to plug it in. The built-in video on the LC should be able to drive it OK. > 5.) I've seen lots of cards to increase the number of colors available to > Mac II's. What about increasing their resolution to 800x600? With the VRAM, you have already increased the number of colours you can get. Increasing the resolution depends on the video card and/or the monitor. You would probably have to get another video card (and thus use up your slot). Someone's already beaten me to the rest :-) -- See ya Nigel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nigel Stanger, Internet: stanger@otago.ac.nz c/o University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Phone: +64 3 479-8179 Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND. Fax: +64 3 479-8311 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "If I had a quote, I'd be wearing it." -- Bob Dylan ----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbd@neuro (Tristan Davies) (06/26/91)
In article <13375@uwm.edu>, pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) writes: > I'm presently looking at a 2Mb Mac LC with VRAM upgrade and extended keyboard. > I'd like to purchase it before school starts up in September, but before I do > so I need many questions answered. Answer as many questions as you want. Any > and all help will be appreciated. > > > 2.) The LC is listed as having a 16MHz, 32-bit CPU. 32-bit what? Data > bus? Address bus? Is this thing more like a MSDOS 286, 386SX, or 386DX? > I have seen a lot of answers to this question, but I'm not sure the question has really been answered. Is it possible to compare the power of an LC to the power of one of the IBMs? If so, where does the LC (or any other Mac, for that matter) rank in the IBM hierarchy? Is it like an AT? PS/2? '386? Since I have an LC and several of my friends have IBMs (yes, they're still my friends(^: ), I'm quite curious. To save the Net, you may e-mail responses if you like. Thanks! Tristan Davies tbd@neuro.duke.edu
allegro@athena.mit.edu (MIKEEEEEEEEEEE) (06/26/91)
What company is producing the FPU w/ 68030 for the LC, how much is it, and where can I get it? Thanks, Mikeee
dcall@mithril.wr.tek.com (Dale Call) (06/26/91)
In article <22439@duke.cs.duke.edu>, tbd@neuro (Tristan Davies) writes: |> |> In article <13375@uwm.edu>, pretzel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel L Premetz) writes: |> > 2.) The LC is listed as having a 16MHz, 32-bit CPU. 32-bit what? Data |> > bus? Address bus? Is this thing more like a MSDOS 286, 386SX, or 386DX? |> > |> I have seen a lot of answers to this question, but I'm not sure the question |> has really been answered. Is it possible to compare the power of an LC to |> the power of one of the IBMs? If so, where does the LC (or any other Mac, |> for that matter) rank in the IBM hierarchy? Is it like an AT? PS/2? '386? |> Since I have an LC and several of my friends have IBMs (yes, they're still |> my friends(^: ), I'm quite curious. -- Some of you folks commenting about 68020's should read a data book sometime ... The 68020 has 32 bit address AND data busses, with 32 bit registers, etc. Apple chose to connect the 68020 in the LC to 16 bit data bus, rather than the more conventional 32 bit bus as a cost savings measure (only needs 2 8-bit SIMMS for memory instead of 4, fewer connectors, etc). This definitely reduces the speed of the 68020 w.r.t. memory fetches (instructions and data). But the '020 has a 256 byte instruction cache, so small instruction loops will run entirely from the internal cache, which is 32-bit. Between the cache, faster instructions, real 32-bit multiply & divide, and a few other miscellaneous features, the 16Mhz '020 works out to be about 3 times faster (on a Mac instruction mix anyway) than a 8MHz 68000 (which is what you find in the Mac Classic/SE/Plus). Comparing an IBM PC architecture machine with it's Intel processor to a Mac with the Motorola processors is hard. The typical PC has a lot of architectural limitations that prevent it from performing as well as it could, and the worst of these are the 640K memory limits and the slow 16bit ISA bus. I find that my LC runs windowing SW (Mac Finder, MS-Word) as fast or faster than most 25MHz 386 machines with VGA displays running Windows 3.0. The real evaluation is whether or not *your* application runs fast enough for you. I have a friend who found out that MS-Word runs a lot faster on his Mac SE than on his 20MHz 386 w/VGA graphics. Also the quality of Mac software is an order of magnitude better than the stuff on the PC. A very happy Mac LC owner, and former PC owner (still have to use them at work though :-)). Dale "Exterminate! Exterminate!" /~\-* ###--< /***\ /*****\
michael@otago.ac.nz (06/27/91)
In article <1991Jun26.150217.614@otago.ac.nz>, stanger@otago.ac.nz (Nigel Stanger) writes: > 32-bit processor. However, the external address and data busses > (sp?) are only 16-bit, which means the CPU has to make two > accesses to retrieve something from memory. In theory this makes > the thing twice as slow as a machine with a full 32-bit bus, but > it doesn't seem that way from experience. Um, thats a 32-bit address bus at any rate. Otherwise it would only address 64K which would be a bit mean :-). "Theory" doesn't really tell us that it should be twice as slow as a full 32-bit bus machine - for a start that assumes 100% bus utilisation and I don't think many CPUs manage that. That aside, the critical point about the '020 is that it has a cache of 64 longwords which mean that tight loops do *no* external bus accesses for instructions, making speed of execution much less dependent on wait states and bus width. >> 5.) I've seen lots of cards to increase the number of colors available to >> Mac II's. What about increasing their resolution to 800x600? > > With the VRAM, you have already increased the number of colours > you can get. Increasing the resolution depends on the video card > and/or the monitor. You would probably have to get another video > card (and thus use up your slot). Make that definitely. Another monitor and some suitable video card in the slot. Michael(tm) Hamel, Computing Services Centre, University of Otago, New Zealand THEAKSTONE (n.) Ancient mad tramp who jabbers to himself and swears loudly and obscenely on station platforms and traffic islands.
martyz@idui1.csrv.uidaho.edu (Marty Zimmerman) (06/28/91)
In article <22439@duke.cs.duke.edu> tbd@neuro (Tristan Davies) writes: question >Is it possible to compare the power of an LC to >the power of one of the IBMs? If so, where does the LC (or any other Mac, >for that matter) rank in the IBM hierarchy? I've done a few benchmark tests, and it comes in about the same as a 10mhz 80286 with no wait-states. That puts it on par with older AT-clones and the PS/2 Model 30/286. Usual disclaimers about benchmarks: none of them are perfect. The ones I used check only the CPU speed - not the disk, video, etc. If you are a Numbers Fanatic, the dhrystone rating was about 2100. -------------------------- Marty Zimmerman <martyz@idui1.csrv.uidaho.edu> Computer Services <martyz@idui1.bitnet> University of Idaho Moscow, ID USA