[alt.sys.sun] Is SUN a "PURE PLAYER" in window systems - SunView or OpenWindows???

gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (12/09/89)

In article <5fLz02oD72dj01@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> aksegu@uts.amdahl.com
(Ashok Kumar A. Segu) writes:
>     I was going thru the SPARCserver family specifications (technical
> brochure) ans saw that the WINDOW SYSTEM that SUN supports is
> OpenWindows.  This was also reiterated by Mr. Scott McNealy and Mr. Eric
> Schmidt at the introduction of SPACRCserver 1 and 490 on Dec.6th.
>
>     Guess what folks, the SYSTEM SOFTWARE does not include OpenWindows,
> but includes SunView.

rogern@sun.com (Roger Nolan, Product Marketing Manager--Windows) wrote:
> This sounds like a misunderstanding.  The OpenWindows Developers Release
> 1.0 is supported and shipping on SPARC systems.

No, this sounds like deliberate evasion.  All the Sun press releases
and speeches and brochures and stuff talk about Open Windows as if it
was real, but Sun still ships the old SunView stuff and doesn't ship
Open Windows *with the system*.

Calling it a "Developers Release, SPARC Only" would be fine -- just stop
telling the press and the customers that Sun is 100% behind Open
Windows, leaving them with an ugly surprise when the system arrives.
Also, I thought the Intel and Motorola ports would be out in October:

>  From: rprobst@SUN.COM (Richard Probst)
>  Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
>  Subject: Sun ships OpenWindows
>  Message-ID: <8909270029.AA26500@paba.sun.com>
>  Date: 27 Sep 89 00:29:27 GMT
>
> Sun is now shipping OpenWindows 1.0 on SPARC machines.  Sun-3 and Sun386i 
> versions will start shipping in 30 days.
>
>	OWN-1.0-4-4-5   SPARC -- Doc and Media  $ 295 ND **     9/25/89
>	OWN-1.0-4-3-5	Sun-3 -- Doc and Media    295 ND **    10/25/89
>	OWN-1.0-4-R-5	386i  -- Doc and Media    295 ND **    10/25/89

(Note the dates in the last column.)

>                 This means that you can buy one copy of the media and
> documentation and run it on as many Sun workstations as you like. 

Oh, really?  Can I upload it to uunet and let anybody FTP it or uucp it
from there?  Can I put it on the Sun User Group tape?  Can I send it to
the guy in Europe who is getting a runaround from his sales office but
keeps seeing postings from other people who have it?  If so, why didn't
Sun just do all this stuff?  Or simply put it on the next &%^$ Unix
release!

> At the current time, OpenWindows is a Developers Release.  We are not
> recommending it to the general end user community at this time.  As a
> result, SunView is still bundled with all of our systems and is the
> default window system for Sun workstations. 

And with this policy, it sure will stay that way.

Imagine you are a software developer.  Let's say you port your first
Sun product to Open Windows.  The customers start to buy it.  You ship
them copies.  Then:  "What do you mean I can't run it?  I have to buy
Open Windows from Sun?  You've ordered things from Sun before, it will
take weeks just to get my sales rep to return a call, since I only
bought three workstations.  Howabout I just send back your software?"

Will OpenWindows be bundled in SunOS 4.1, or will we have the same
story for another whole year?
-- 
John Gilmore      {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!gnu      gnu@toad.com
    Just say *yes* to drugs.  Use your *no*s for government bullshit.

barnett@crdgw1.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) (12/14/89)

In article <9236@hoptoad.uucp>, gnu@hoptoad (John Gilmore) writes:

>Will OpenWindows be bundled in SunOS 4.1, or will we have the same
>story for another whole year?

Well, from what I hear, the alpha/beta test time for SunOS is HUGE!

By separating window stuff from SunOS, we might see new releases of
SunView and OpenLook before we see SunOS 4.1.

Sure enough, I just got the following message:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	SUN INTRODUCES NEW EASY-TO-USE TOOLS FOR DESKSET

SunFLASH Vol 12 #1					 December 1989
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Free Right-To-Use License Included With All Sun Workstations

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. --December 5, 1989-- Sun Microsystems today
introduced an enhanced release of the DeskSet(TM) environment, a suite
of easy-to-use, window-based tools built around the OPEN LOOK(TM)
graphical user interface.  Four new tools bring the DeskSet 1.0 total
to 12   making this the most extensive set of tools available on
workstations today.  Sun also announced that a free right-to-use
license for DeskSet 1.0 is now included with all Sun workstations.

These "essential" tools   such as a file manager and mail tool make the
UNIX(R) operating system simpler, replacing the keying in of commands
with the point and click of a mouse.  Additionally, the tools can be
run in a 2-D or 3-D mode.

DeskSet 1.0 will be of particular interest to independent software
developers who use the SunView(TM) window system, since the new release
enables them to add "drag and drop" functionality to their SunView
applications.  Until now, DeskSet has only been available for X-based
applications.  DeskSet was first released in April as a part of the
OpenWindows(TM) application environment, built on the X11/NeWS(TM)
window system.

The new release includes four new tools: a calendar manager, print
tool, tape tool and calculator, in addition to the original tools: file
manager, mail tool, text editor, binder, icon editor, snapshot tool,
performance meters and clock.  All 12 tools utilize the "drag and drop"
method of directly manipulating visual objects with a mouse, making
work very fast and intuitive.

The New Tools:



    Calendar manager  simplifies appointment and resource scheduling,
notifying the user of scheduled one-time or ongoing meetings, visually
or via sound;

    Print tool  enables users to simply "drag and drop" an icon with a
mouse to print documents or mail messages;

    Tape tool  provides an easy way to read, write or list data from a
local or remote tape drive;

    Calculator  is programmable for algebraic, scientific and logic
mathematical functions.


Availability

The DeskSet 1.0 tool suite will be available during the first quarter
of 1990.  A right-to-use license is free with every Sun workstation
shipped; tape and documentation are $295.  The suite is available on
all Sun platforms and requires only 4 megabytes of memory.

Sun Microsystems, Inc., headquartered in Mountain View, Calif., is a
leading worldwide supplier of network-based distributed computing
systems, including professional workstations, servers and UNIX
operating system and productivity software.

###

OpenWindows, SunView and DeskSet are trademarks of Sun Microsystems,
Inc.  UNIX is a registered trademark and OPEN LOOK is a trademark of
AT&T.  All other products or services mentioned in this document are
identified by the trademarks or service marks of their respective
companies or organizations.  For reader inquiries, telephone
1-800-821-4643 outside California.  Inside California, call
1-800-821-4642.

Press Contact:  Cathy Garfield (415) 336-6536

--
Bruce G. Barnett	<barnett@crd.ge.com>   uunet!crdgw1!barnett