kaiser@jaws.DEC (Pete Kaiser 225-5441 HLO2-1/N10) (01/14/85)
A recent posting to net.unix-wizards mentions UNIX's smallness as one of its virtues. For comparison, I know of a functioning MicroVMS system that occupies a total of 2878 blocks on an RD disk and can be stored as a backup save set on 4 RX50 floppies. The person responsible for this calls it "NanoVMS", and points out that "since it can MOUNT disks, and perform COPY and BACKUP operations from them, it can grow into a full VMS system without any omissions." My thanks to NanoVMS's configurer -- you know who you are, Ed -- and hope for his forgiving my posting this information without his permission. ---Pete Kaiser%JAWS.DEC@decwrl.arpa, Kaiser%BELKER.DEC@decwrl.arpa {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-jaws!kaiser DEC, 77 Reed Road (HLO2-1/N10), Hudson MA 01749 617/568-5441
dan@rna.UUCP (01/14/85)
> A recent posting to net.unix-wizards mentions UNIX's smallness as one of > its virtues. For comparison, I know of a functioning MicroVMS system that > occupies a total of 2878 blocks on an RD disk and can be stored as a backup > save set on 4 RX50 floppies. The person responsible for this calls it > "NanoVMS", and points out that "since it can MOUNT disks, and perform COPY > and BACKUP operations from them, it can grow into a full VMS system without > any omissions." > > My thanks to NanoVMS's configurer -- you know who you are, Ed -- and hope for > his forgiving my posting this information without his permission. I'm glad to hear VMS can be compressed like that. It is quite possible (I've done it) to run a minimal UNIX system capable of mounting, copying, and other file utilities in a single 500block (1/4Mb) floppy (including swap). A reasonably function system can be placed on two such floppies, which in addition to the standard utilities, could include a few applications and space for application data files.
info-vax@ucbvax.ARPA (01/15/85)
From: fortune!redwood!rpw3@UCB-VAX +--------------- | A recent posting to net.unix-wizards mentions UNIX's smallness as one of | its virtues. For comparison, I know of a functioning MicroVMS system that | occupies a total of 2878 blocks on an RD disk and can be stored as a backup | save set on 4 RX50 floppies. The person responsible for this calls it | "NanoVMS", and points out that "since it can MOUNT disks, and perform COPY | and BACKUP operations from them, it can grow into a full VMS system without | any omissions." | ---Pete +--------------- I'll see you a VMS and raise you back a UNIX... The Fortune Systems 32:16 operating system (a UNIX v.7/4.1bsd/Sys-III derivative), including a fancy menu-driven shell and "user-friendly" software installation package, comes with the system on THREE (3) 5-1/4" floppies (less than 2370 1K blocks). Since it can format disks (floppies and hard disks of various sizes), "mkfs" them, mount/umount, copy, install, backup, and delete software (both protected and un-), it could "grow into a full UNIX", except that it already is pretty much of one. (The compilers, major development tools, and applications are unbundled.) This so-called "cold boot set" includes an editor (ed), multi-queue print spooler (with "printcap"), shells (menu and Bourne), system management tools (ps, pstat, df, fsck, etc.), terminal support (termcap, page, more), run-time auto-configuration of hardware, etc. (It's over 270 files.) Actually, the UNIX stuff is really on the first two disks; the third one is completely full of the "user-friendly" shell (mostly the screens and the error messages.) So let's trim it down to what a UNIX person would consider a basic execution environment -- the first two disks. That's less than 1.6 megabytes. "I'll see your four floppies and raise (oops! lower) you to two..." Rob Warnock Systems Architecture Consultant UUCP: {ihnp4,ucbvax!dual}!fortune!redwood!rpw3 DDD: (415)572-2607 USPS: 510 Trinidad Lane, Foster City, CA 94404
info-vax@ucbvax.ARPA (01/15/85)
From: callas%meteor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA (Hardware is just a mathematical abstraction) A recent posting to net.unix-wizards mentions UNIX's smallness as one of its virtues. For comparison, I know of a functioning MicroVMS system that occupies a total of 2878 blocks on an RD disk and can be stored as a backup save set on 4 RX50 floppies. The person responsible for this calls it "NanoVMS", and points out that "since it can MOUNT disks, and perform COPY and BACKUP operations from them, it can grow into a full VMS system without any omissions." ---Pete I'll see you a VMS and raise you back a UNIX... The Fortune Systems 32:16 operating system (a UNIX v.7/4.1bsd/Sys-III derivative), including a fancy menu-driven shell and "user-friendly" software installation package, comes with the system on THREE (3) 5-1/4" floppies (less than 2370 1K blocks). Since it can format disks (floppies and hard disks of various sizes), "mkfs" them, mount/umount, copy, install, backup, and delete software (both protected and un-), it could "grow into a full UNIX", except that it already is pretty much of one. (The compilers, major development tools, and applications are unbundled.) [...] Actually, the UNIX stuff is really on the first two disks; the third one is completely full of the "user-friendly" shell (mostly the screens and the error messages.) So let's trim it down to what a UNIX person would consider a basic execution environment -- the first two disks. That's less than 1.6 megabytes. "I'll see your four floppies and raise (oops! lower) you to two..." I'm afraid you lose. The 2878 block system mentioned above (Which I have never heard of -- I'm impressed!) is a 2878 512 byte block system! This makes it nearly 1/2 the size of the 2370K system you mention, and at 1.4 megabytes, still smaller than the 1.6 megabyte "user-surly" system you mention. However, the point that your 2 floppies hold much more data than the 4 RX50's is conceded. Jon Callas callas%meteor.DEC@decwrl.ARPA ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-meteor!callas
info-vax@ucbvax.ARPA (01/20/85)
From: ihnp4!utzoo!henry@UCB-VAX > A recent posting to net.unix-wizards mentions UNIX's smallness as one of > its virtues. For comparison, I know of a functioning MicroVMS system that > occupies a total of 2878 blocks on an RD disk and can be stored as a backup > save set on 4 RX50 floppies. The person responsible for this calls it > "NanoVMS", and points out that "since it can MOUNT disks, and perform COPY > and BACKUP operations from them, it can grow into a full VMS system without > any omissions." Positively elephantine. MiniUnix (remember that?) could *run* from a single floppy. It could mount disks, and perform copies and backups too. Running it off a floppy made it kinda slow, but it worked. It was pretty close to a full Unix, in its day. I also worked for a year and a half on a Unix whose system disk was a single RK05. This was *not* a subset and *not* a cut-down version; it was a full V6 Unix. An RK05 was 4800 512-byte blocks, the last 800 were swap area, and there was a modest amount of free space on the disk. Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
info-vax@ucbvax.ARPA (01/20/85)
From: cowan%r2me2.DEC@decwrl.ARPA (Ken Cowan, 381-2198) Speaking of anti-smallness ... Does anyone remember using a PDP 11/20 with only a few K of memory? How about a not-so-old PDP 11/70 with 128K? These days I need 128K just to sneeze ... I was editing a file the other day and got between 4 and 5 Mb of real memory to use. I'm having a good time; how about you? KC