eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) (07/03/90)
Having gotten limited response to my first query, let me rephrase it like this: Can two RS/6000 systems remotely connected over an IBM SNA network use TCP/IP to communicate with each other? How is this done? Are there any advantages to this over the way two Sun workstations would do TCP/IP over that same network? Thank You -- Dewey Paciaffi eddjp@althea.UUCP
linas@linas.austin.ibm.com (Linas Vepstas/32784) (07/19/90)
Let me try to answer this one...
If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that
you can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation
system in New Jersey would probably burp.
If you have Ethernet, well, just hook the /6000 to it. It'll work.
Use sockets. They'll work. IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top
of SNA. If you have to use SNA, call your IBM Mainframe service rep.
The /6000 supports SNA, but you'll probably have to buy special
hardware to hook up to your s/370 or 3090.
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
Yow !!! The opinions represented herein are my own and not my employer's.eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) (07/19/90)
In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com writes:
-
-Let me try to answer this one...
-If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that
-you can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation
-system in New Jersey would probably burp.
Don't tell this to my SUNs doing 3274 emulation...
-If you have Ethernet, well, just hook the /6000 to it. It'll work.
-Use sockets. They'll work. IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top
-of SNA. If you have to use SNA, call your IBM Mainframe service rep.
-The /6000 supports SNA, but you'll probably have to buy special
-hardware to hook up to your s/370 or 3090.
This seems to conflict with what I've heard elsewhere. I've been told that
the RS/6000 doesn't support SNA, but that SNA does support TCP/IP, with
the proper Hardware/Software/Mainframe configuration. If this actually
is the case, then the RS/6000 TCP/IP should be just as easily transported
across the SNA as the TCP/IP from a SUN or a Xenix/386, for that matter.
Am I missing something here?
--
Dewey Paciaffi
eddjp@althea.UUCPbob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) (07/19/90)
In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com (Linas Vepstas/32784) writes:
If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that you
can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation
system in New Jersey would probably burp.
Please don't tell that to our marketing people, who have been selling
our SNA products all over the world on Suns (and plenty of other UNIX
boxes) for several years now - they might get heartburn. There are
several other folks playing the UNIX<->SNA connectivity game as well,
including (*urp*) Sun Themselves.
IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top of SNA.
I don't know of anyone who's doing that. Yet.drake@drake.almaden.ibm.com (07/21/90)
In article <BOB.90Jul19094010@volitans.MorningStar.Com> bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) writes: >In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com (Linas Vepstas/32784) writes: > > IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top of SNA. > >I don't know of anyone who's doing that. Yet. The IBM mainframe TCP/IP products for the VM and MVS operating systems will, in fact, allow you to use an existing SNA network to route IP packets. You do not HAVE to do this, of course, but it's an option that can be very attractive if you already have a SNA network between two cities, say. Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center Internet: drake@ibm.com BITNET: DRAKE at ALMADEN Usenet: ...!uunet!ibmarc!drake Phone: (408) 927-1861
kim@MorningStar.Com (Kim Toms) (07/21/90)
I believe there are some people who are running X.25 over SNA. This prevents a company from having to string parallel wires when they have both types of networks.
drake@drake.almaden.ibm.com (07/23/90)
In article <2318@althea.UUCP> eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) writes: >This seems to conflict with what I've heard elsewhere. I've been told that >the RS/6000 doesn't support SNA, but that SNA does support TCP/IP, with >the proper Hardware/Software/Mainframe configuration. If this actually >is the case, then the RS/6000 TCP/IP should be just as easily transported >across the SNA as the TCP/IP from a SUN or a Xenix/386, for that matter. > >Am I missing something here? No, you're 100% correct. The original posting was in error. SUNs can use SNA networks, and you CAN (but do not have to) send IP over SNA networks. Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center Internet: drake@ibm.com BITNET: DRAKE at ALMADEN Usenet: ...!uunet!ibmarc!drake Phone: (408) 927-1861
jt@morpho.UUCP (John Timlick) (07/24/90)
In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com writes: > >Let me try to answer this one... >If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that >you can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation >system in New Jersey would probably burp. > >If you have Ethernet, well, just hook the /6000 to it. It'll work. >Use sockets. They'll work. IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top >of SNA. If you have to use SNA, call your IBM Mainframe service rep. >The /6000 supports SNA, but you'll probably have to buy special >hardware to hook up to your s/370 or 3090. > > ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ >Yow !!! The opinions represented herein are my own and not my employer's. I missed the original article(s) that seem to have prompted this reply but IBM does make a product that will run TCP/IP over SNA. I know because we have it. The product is called "IPSNA". We got it from IBM and have even had some support from Austin. It requires multiprotocol adapters and a fair amount of configuration but does work. So, if the original question was can RT's talk TCP-IP over SNA the answer is yes. Contact your IBM rep about this product. I don't know if RS6000's are supported. If that was not the original question then sorry for sticking my nose in your business. Regards, John T. -- John C. Timlick (206) 593-8015 North American Morpho Systems, INC. Tacoma, WA 98402 ..!amc-gw!morpho!jt
mje@olsa99.UUCP (Mark J Elkins) (07/26/90)
In article <KIM.90Jul20214838@manta.MorningStar.Com> kim@MorningStar.Com (Kim Toms) writes: >I believe there are some people who are running X.25 over SNA. This >prevents a company from having to string parallel wires when they have >both types of networks. I have a book (Software installation guide) titled SNA/X25 (QLLC) - and reading inside it, SNA is running on top of X25 - not the other way around. It achieves a similar result thought - you only need one comms line - and not two. (This is an 'Olivetti' product which _probably_ means someone else did it - and oli bought it from them) -- . . ___. .__ Olivetti Systems & Networks, Unix Support - Africa /| /| / /__ UUCP: {uunet,olgb1,olnl1}!olsa99!mje (Mark Elkins) / |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS mje@olsa99.UUCP (Postmaster) Tel: +27 11 339 9093
RAH@IBM.COM ("Russell A. Heise") (08/16/90)
eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) writes: > In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com writes: > - > -Let me try to answer this one... > -If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that > -you can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation > -system in New Jersey would probably burp. > > Don't tell this to my SUNs doing 3274 emulation... Here, here... > > -If you have Ethernet, well, just hook the /6000 to it. It'll work. > -Use sockets. They'll work. IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top > -of SNA. If you have to use SNA, call your IBM Mainframe service rep. > -The /6000 supports SNA, but you'll probably have to buy special > -hardware to hook up to your s/370 or 3090. > > This seems to conflict with what I've heard elsewhere. I've been told that > the RS/6000 doesn't support SNA, but that SNA does support TCP/IP, with > the proper Hardware/Software/Mainframe configuration. If this actually > is the case, then the RS/6000 TCP/IP should be just as easily transported > across the SNA as the TCP/IP from a SUN or a Xenix/386, for that matter. My turn. AIX V3 on the RISC System/6000 provides support for TCP/IP over Token-Ring networks, Ethernet networks, and Serial lines (RS-232D). This support comes in the base OS offering. In addition, you can purchase and install a separate product, AIX SNA Services/6000, which provides a programming level interface to an SNA network. It does not provide a user-interface or any form of emulation, but it does allow you to build your own interface on top. TCP/IP and SNA are apples and oranges, with some exceptions. The biggest exception arises from the fact that an SNA network can include a Token-Ring network. Therefore, (with the right software configured) an RS/6000 can "talk" TCP/IP over a Token-Ring, or "talk" SNA over a Token-Ring, or both. The two protocol suites can coexist on the same Token-Ring without influence or interference. When your SUNs are doing 327x emulation, their emulation software is talking to the controller using SNA protocols. This has nothing to do with TCP/IP. Russ Heise, AIX TEchnical Support, IBM
eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) (08/17/90)
In article <081690.091707.heise1@ibm.com> RAH@IBM.COM ("Russell A. Heise") writes: - - eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) writes: - - > In article <2812@awdprime.UUCP> linas@linas.austin.ibm.com writes: - > - - > -Let me try to answer this one... - > -If you have a SNA network, there is no way in the world that - > -you can hook up a Sun to it. If you did, every airline reservation - > -system in New Jersey would probably burp. > > - > Don't tell this to my SUNs doing 3274 emulation... - Here, here... - > - > -If you have Ethernet, well, just hook the /6000 to it. It'll work. - > -Use sockets. They'll work. IBM TCP/IP is NOT implemented on top - > -of SNA. If you have to use SNA, call your IBM Mainframe service rep. - > -The /6000 supports SNA, but you'll probably have to buy special - > -hardware to hook up to your s/370 or 3090. - > - > This seems to conflict with what I've heard elsewhere. I've been told that - > the RS/6000 doesn't support SNA, but that SNA does support TCP/IP, with - > the proper Hardware/Software/Mainframe configuration. If this actually - > is the case, then the RS/6000 TCP/IP should be just as easily transported - > across the SNA as the TCP/IP from a SUN or a Xenix/386, for that matter. - - My turn. AIX V3 on the RISC System/6000 provides support for TCP/IP - over Token-Ring networks, Ethernet networks, and Serial lines (RS-232D). - This support comes in the base OS offering. In addition, you can - purchase and install a separate product, AIX SNA Services/6000, which - provides a programming level interface to an SNA network. It does not - provide a user-interface or any form of emulation, but it does allow you - to build your own interface on top. - - TCP/IP and SNA are apples and oranges, with some exceptions. The - biggest exception arises from the fact that an SNA network can include - a Token-Ring network. Therefore, (with the right software configured) - an RS/6000 can "talk" TCP/IP over a Token-Ring, or "talk" SNA over a - Token-Ring, or both. The two protocol suites can coexist on the same - Token-Ring without influence or interference. When your SUNs are doing - 327x emulation, their emulation software is talking to the controller - using SNA protocols. This has nothing to do with TCP/IP. - -Russ Heise, AIX TEchnical Support, IBM Firstly, the poster linas in Austin stated that there is "No Way" to hook Suns to an SNA Network. I have Suns doing 327x emulation, consider it a connection to our SNA network, and know the difference between it and TCP/IP. Based on your posting above, Russ, I'm confused again. I thought I was no longer confused last month when you posted the following: -From: RAH@IBM.COM ("Russell A. Heise") -Subject: RS/6000 Communications -Date: 16 Jul 90 19:29:51 GMT - eddjp@althea.UUCP (Dewey Paciaffi) writes: -> My company is buying RS/6000s. We have an SNA network that serves a number -> of sites, tied to a 3090 at the Corporate Headquarters. -> -> We would like RS/6000s at different locations to communicate over the -> SNA backbone. This communication would be preferably TCP/IP. Is there -> a product available or in development that would allow this? -Yes, you may wish to consider one of the following options: -a) o Install VM-TCP/IP (or MVS-TCP/IP) on the 3090 nearest to each RISC - System/6000. I am assuming that you have more than one 3090! - o Connect each RS/6000 to the local 3090 via Token-Ring or Ethernet. - VM-TCP/IP can talk directly to both types of networks. - o Activate the SNA Network Link feature of VM-TCP/IP to gateway TCP/IP - packets between the two local area networks *over* the SNA network. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You said TCP/IP can be transported over SNA, with the proper hardware and software configuration. This agreed with what I had heard elsewhere. In today's posting you call SNA and TCP apples and oranges, and seem to say that TCP is not transportable over SNA. Does the VM-TCP Gateway product encapsulate the TCP-IP Packets in SNA Packets? For my purposes this constitutes transporting TCP/IP over SNA. I know that native TCP doesn't work over SNA, which is why I asked the original question in the first place. -- Dewey Paciaffi eddjp@althea.UUCP
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (08/18/90)
> TCP/IP and SNA are apples and oranges, with some exceptions. The > biggest exception arises from the fact that an SNA network can include > a Token-Ring network. Another exception might arise from some way of encapsulating IP datagrams so as to send them over an SNA network, so that the SNA network sort of "looks like" an Ethernet or (more likely) an X.25 network to IP. Does anybody actually do so, i.e. send IP datagrams over an SNA network?