[comp.unix.aix] disk quota

cetin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Cetin) (05/14/91)

Is there a way to inforce disk quotas on an IBM RS6000 ????

I manage a network of IBM RS6000 workstations, it consits of 3 model 520
servers and about 50 model 320 workstations.  The 320 workstations get most 
everthing (home directories application programs etc.) via NFS mounts from
the servers.  We also user YP oops NIS to manage the 1500 user accounts on our
network (that's a problem I will write about in another note).  Of these 
1500 users there are more than a few who tend to use more than their fair share
of disk space.  

I don't know a lot about disk quotas, but I thought it was a standard feature
of most all unix systems.  Anyway I tried as best I could to find out about
disk quotas on the IBM RS6000.  Well, it dosen't exist.  I called the software 
defect support center and inquired about "disk quotas", but they didn't really
no what I was talking about. (after all there can't be a problem with something
if it doesn't exist in the first place.)

So, I was hoping that someone out on the "net" might know more than I about
the availability of "disk quotas" for the IBM RS6000. (or something that might
work in place of "disk quotas".


Thanks in advance

Randy Cetin
University of Illinois

jdh@bu-pub.bu.edu (Jason Heirtzler) (05/14/91)

Well, by now you've surely heard the news that there are currently no
disk quotas in AIX 3.1.   The documentation sort of implies that there
are quotas right around the corner, but I've heard this is wrong.   The
"inside rumor" is that it might not be in the next big release, whenever
that comes out.  The offical response is "We're market driven.  If the
market wants it, then we'll write it."

The only alternative I see is to use NFS (or something like AFS) and let
that handle the quota problem. Then you lose the nice JFS properties.

Personally, I don't think you can run a real student timesharing machine
without the ability to use disk quotas.

jdh

woan@cactus.org (Ronald S. Woan) (05/14/91)

In article <1991May13.185928.26704@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cetin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Cetin) writes:
>I don't know a lot about disk quotas, but I thought it was a standard feature
>of most all unix systems.  Anyway I tried as best I could to find out about
>disk quotas on the IBM RS6000.  Well, it dosen't exist.  

Disk quotas are a BSD FFS thing and are not supported by IBM's JFS 
currently. I suppose something similar might be implementable
by giving each user their own file system or something... Well,
maybe not.
-- 
+-----All Views Expressed Are My Own And Are Not Necessarily Shared By------+
+------------------------------My Employer----------------------------------+
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bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Bob Ware) (05/14/91)

In article <81533@bu.edu> jdh@bu-pub.bu.edu (Jason Heirtzler) writes:
...
>
>Personally, I don't think you can run a real student timesharing machine
>without the ability to use disk quotas.
>

I agree.  We are finding it is a serious problem.

-- 
Bob Ware, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Co 80401, USA
(303) 273-3987
bware@mines.colorado.edu bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu bware@mines.bitnet

AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET (Zvika Bar-Deroma) (05/16/91)

In article <1991May14.155119.40931@slate.mines.colorado.edu>,
bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Bob Ware) says:
>
>In article <81533@bu.edu> jdh@bu-pub.bu.edu (Jason Heirtzler) writes:
>...
>>
>>Personally, I don't think you can run a real student timesharing machine
>>without the ability to use disk quotas.
>>
>
>I agree.  We are finding it is a serious problem.
>
>--
>Bob Ware, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Co 80401, USA
>(303) 273-3987
>bware@mines.colorado.edu bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu bware@mines.bitnet
I agree - disk quotas, are a real necessity when dealing with multiuser
servers !  IBM - let's see it in 3.2...  ! As for the suggestion to given
each user his own filesystem, this sounds like a bad joke to me !

/Zvika

Zvika Bar-Deroma                                  Phone: (+972)-4-292706
Faculty of Aerospace Engineering,                 Fax  : (+972)-4-231848
Technion
Haifa 32000
Israel

BITNET        :   AER7101@TECHNION
Internet      :   AER7101@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL
UUCP          :   ...!uunet!pucc.princeton.edu!technion!aer7101

guidry@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David A Guidry) (05/17/91)

In article <91136.145258AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET> AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET (Zvika Bar-Deroma) writes:
>In article <1991May14.155119.40931@slate.mines.colorado.edu>,
>bware@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Bob Ware) says:

>I agree - disk quotas, are a real necessity when dealing with multiuser
>servers !  IBM - let's see it in 3.2...  ! 

Ditto to that.

>As for the suggestion to given
>each user his own filesystem, this sounds like a bad joke to me !

Don't laugh...just look at CMS,
IBM took care of security interests by wasting TONS of disk space.
Everybody has their own separate part of the disk.

Dave


-- 
David A. Guidry      |  empire: guaranteed to      | Unfortunately, we did not 
Student Consultant   |  lower your GPA by 2 pts    | realize that he was stupid
Academic Computing and Network Services            | --April Glaspie
<guidry@casbah.acns.nwu.edu><dawidge@nuacvm.bitnet>| US Ambassador to Iraq

jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F Haugh II) (05/17/91)

In article <1991May17.000303.16324@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> guidry@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David A Guidry) writes:
>In article <91136.145258AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET> AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET (Zvika Bar-Deroma) writes:
>>As for the suggestion to given
>>each user his own filesystem, this sounds like a bad joke to me !
>
>Don't laugh...just look at CMS,
>IBM took care of security interests by wasting TONS of disk space.
>Everybody has their own separate part of the disk.

I think your perception of CMS is slightly skewed.  Only your private,
permanent data is in a separate disk, for example, I have 15 cylinders of
3380 as my A disk.  If I need more during a session, I can create a
minidisk with 50 or 100 or whatever number of cylinders that I need.
Whenever I logout, that temporary disk goes away.  So, if I need to have
100 cylinders for an hour or so, I create a 100 cylinder B disk, do my
work, and then dispose of the B disk.  Hard quotas under UNIX would
either grant me a 100MB quota, which users could then overcommit the
entire disk to, or stick me with the 15MB quota that I can't create
100MB files on.

At previous installations where I was forced to be the Evil System
Administrator, my solution was to let the disk fill up, then enforce
"Administrative Quotas" using the quot command and a file listing
howmany blocks each user was permitted.  When free space was below
some threshhold, then I cared, otherwise I didn't worry about it.
-- 
John F. Haugh II        | Distribution to  | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 255-8251 | GEnie PROHIBITED :-) |  Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
"If liberals interpreted the 2nd Amendment the same way they interpret the
 rest of the Constitution, gun ownership would be mandatory."

jackv@turnkey.tcc.com (Jack F. Vogel) (05/17/91)

In article <1991May17.000303.16324@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> guidry@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David A Guidry) writes:
>In article <91136.145258AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET> AER7101@TECHNION.BITNET (Zvika Bar-Deroma) writes:
 
>>As for the suggestion to given
>>each user his own filesystem, this sounds like a bad joke to me !
>
>Don't laugh...just look at CMS,
>IBM took care of security interests by wasting TONS of disk space.
>Everybody has their own separate part of the disk.
 
Not that I am a fan of CMS, although I use it every day, IBM's APAR
management package runs on VM/CMS, but in the interest of accuracy I
can't let this critique go by.

I can't see that CMS is wasting anything. Have you heard of read/only
shareable minidisks? The CMS binaries reside on a single minidisk and
this is shared by ALL CMS users, so no waste there. What about the
fact that each user has a read/write minidisk of his own, how is this
wasting anything? He is using up some portion of real DASD, so what?
How is this any different really, from each Unix user's home directory?
Sure, CMS is a single-user OS, and it has its faults, but I don't think
"wasting TONS of disk space" is one of them.

Disclaimer: Opinions are my own, not necessarily LCC's nor IBM's.

-- 
Jack F. Vogel			jackv@locus.com
AIX370 Technical Support	       - or -
Locus Computing Corp.		jackv@turnkey.TCC.COM

dawn@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dawn Owens) (05/18/91)

guidry@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David A Guidry) writes:

>Don't laugh...just look at CMS,
>IBM took care of security interests by wasting TONS of disk space.
>Everybody has their own separate part of the disk.

Don't laugh..If you are using one of the big stat packages (SPSS or SAS)
having your own disk space saves you ALOT of headache.  These packages
often need some place to write a large temporary workfile.  Let's say
you want to write it in /tmp.  You check first, and there is plenty of
room, so you start your job.  Then suddenly someone else grabs some /tmp
and there is no longer enough room for your workfiles..your job bombs.
You have to hang around, keep trying, and it can cost a lot in money
and time.  This problem doesn't come up in CMS.

Dawn