scott@nancy.uucp (Scott Bartram) (09/27/90)
Has MIPS or NCD released an R4 server for the RS1210 (NCD16)? What version of the MIPS OS (I currently run 4.01) supports X11R4? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. scott -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Scott Bartram uunet!nancy!scott Consultant, American Systems Corp. Chantilly, VA.
mohan@mips.COM (Ram Mohan Vedula) (09/28/90)
In article <1990Sep26.230626.12151@nancy.uucp> scott@nancy.uucp (Scott Bartram) writes: >Has MIPS or NCD released an R4 server for the RS1210 (NCD16)? NCD's R4 server (version 2.2) is currently in Beta. Mips' R4 (RISCwindows 4.0) is under development. > What version of the MIPS OS (I currently run 4.01) supports X11R4? You would need RISCos 4.50. Mohan -- Mohan Vedula mohan@mips.com MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!mohan 930 DeGuigne Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Telephone: (408) 524-7427
dwl@hare.udev.cdc.com (Daren W Latham) (09/29/90)
In article <41780@mips.mips.COM>, mohan@mips.COM (Ram Mohan Vedula) writes: |> In article <1990Sep26.230626.12151@nancy.uucp> scott@nancy.uucp (Scott Bartram) writes: |> >Has MIPS or NCD released an R4 server for the RS1210 (NCD16)? |> |> NCD's R4 server (version 2.2) is currently in Beta. NCD has already released their new X11R4 server which is called NCDware 2.2. They started shipping software updates around 9/17/90. We have already received ours. The new release is quite a bit faster than their 2.1 release. They have added more configurability to the terminal, and support for SNMP so you can control it's configuration remotely without resetting the terminal. |> Mips' R4 (RISCwindows 4.0) is under development. Will RISCwindows 4.0 include imake and the necessary configuration files to make it easy to port contributed X software that has Imakefiles? |> |> > What version of the MIPS OS (I currently run 4.01) supports X11R4? |> |> You would need RISCos 4.50. |> Thanks, -- Daren -- Daren W. Latham, ARH215 | dwl@udev.cdc.com Control Data Corporation | {uunet}!shamash!punjab!hare!dwl 4201 North Lexington Avenue | Arden Hills, MN 55126 | (612)482-3457
mohan@mips.COM (Ram Mohan Vedula) (09/29/90)
In article <26401@shamash.cdc.com> dwl@mercury.udev.cdc.com writes: > > Will RISCwindows 4.0 include imake and the necessary configuration files > to make it easy to port contributed X software that has Imakefiles? Yes; imake, Mips.cf and friends will be part of RISCwindows 4.0 binary release. Mohan -- Mohan Vedula mohan@mips.com MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!mohan 930 DeGuigne Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Telephone: (408) 524-7427
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/01/90)
From article <41807@mips.mips.COM>, by mohan@mips.COM (Ram Mohan Vedula): > Yes; imake, Mips.cf and friends will be part of RISCwindows 4.0 binary > release. What is the unique preprocessor symbol used in BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS to distinguish true MIPS machines from all others (e.g., DECstations). I sure hope it's *not* "mips"... -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"
jtw@lcs.mit.edu (John Wroclawski) (10/01/90)
In article <3194@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) writes:
From: bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral)
What is the unique preprocessor symbol used in BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS to
distinguish true MIPS machines from all others (e.g., DECstations).
Arrgh, yes. I'd like to follow this up by begging the Mips folks to
define a Mips Co. specific preprocessor symbol in their compilation
environment. The current situation is a minor nightmare for any site
with more than one type of mips-cpu based machine.
Our local X11R4 port uses "umips".
-john
jtw@lcs.mit.edurogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/01/90)
In article <JTW.90Sep30221730@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> jtw@lcs.mit.edu (John Wroclawski) writes: >Arrgh, yes. I'd like to follow this up by begging the Mips folks to >define a Mips Co. specific preprocessor symbol in their compilation >environment. The current situation is a minor nightmare for any site >with more than one type of mips-cpu based machine. Strictly speaking, unfortunately, our cpp doesn't define a Mips Computer Systems specific symbol because our cpp doesn't define *any*... they're defined by the command lines in the compiler driver. However... >Our local X11R4 port uses "umips". We use RISCOS. If you consistently use RISCOS, you won't go wrong. In fact, if you use a cpp that defines RISCOS and calls the real cpp, you'll do fine too. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421 rogerk@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA" "Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." --Rita Mae Brown
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/01/90)
From article <41820@mips.mips.COM>, by rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese): > Strictly speaking, unfortunately, our cpp doesn't define a Mips Computer > Systems specific symbol because our cpp doesn't define *any*... they're > defined by the command lines in the compiler driver. However... Yes, we know that. Many cpp's don't predefine anything. *Most* of them won't someday, I suppose, when ANSI C takes hold. That doesn't matter. The X installation documents cover that case. That's what BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS is for. You *still* need some unique symbol for MIPS systems. > We use RISCOS. If you consistently use RISCOS, you won't go wrong. In > fact, if you use a cpp that defines RISCOS and calls the real cpp, you'll > do fine too. ARGHH, NOOO!! This is not unique. Heard of Acorn Systems in the UK? I quote from a comp.windows.x article from a while back (note the date and you see this issue is not new and has been causing headaches for a while): --------------------------------------------------------------- Reply-To: john@acorn.UUCP (John Bowler) Date: 19 Feb 90 12:04:47 GMT Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, UK In article <1608@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >From article <KEITH.90Feb15114346@osage.csc.ti.com>, by keith@osage.csc.ti.com (Keith Sparacin): >> I am looking for a Mips config file (i.e. mit/config/mips.cf) used to >> build X release 4 on a Mips M2000 running RISC 4.0. I only need the >> client side. Has anyone already done it? > >I think this brings up the question of what the right name would be for >a config file for MIPS computers. mips.cf, perhaps, but I propose that >that is somewhat confusing, since MipsArchitecture gets defined for systems >other than those by MIPS (e.g., DS3100). How about riscos.cf, since nobody >but MIPS uses an OS called RISC/os? The control block I use in Imake.tmpl >looks like this: > Not true, we sell an operating system called ``RISC OS'' (NOTE - a space, no / character). The more general question is ``given an operating system/machine called wombat what special symbol should it defined''. The answer must be that that symbol should definately start with two _ characters (or one and an upper case letter) - because the ANSI (and hence ISO) C standard reserves these names for the implementation (so, the X code cannot be ANSI conformant and contain (clashing) symbols which start __ or _[A-Z}, can it? :-|. It's a pity you can't put a / in a cpp symbol. You can't put a space in either... Our current (not completely ANSI conformant) products define:- ARM arm (both indicate processor) unix (on UN*X type systems) riscos (on RISC OS systems) In the future we (currently) intend these to become:- __arm __unix __riscos I would suggest RISCos (not ANSI conformant) or __RISCos (more ANSI like), although this breaks the pseudo-standard of using lower case. The real problem is the lack of a central registration authority for such symbols (defining things as ANSI reserved names does not deal with this problem!) John Bowler (jbowler@acorn.co.uk) ----------------------------------------------------------- Me [bin] again... My conventions for my own projects are mipsriscos unique preprocessor symbol (for BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS) MipsArchitecture hardware architecture symbol for imake templates MipsRiscosArchitecture software architecture symbol for templates Yes, they're ugly. They're (I think) unique and not likely to be used on other systems. Can anyone contradict this? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"
rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/01/90)
In article <3201@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >> We use RISCOS. >ARGHH, NOOO!! This is not unique. Heard of Acorn Systems in the UK? > riscos (on RISC OS systems) Yes, but cpp is case-sensitive. When we have an ANSI C compiler, we will use symbols consistent with ANSI. For now, use RISCOS for Mips, and if you wish to, riscos for ARM. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421 rogerk@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA" "Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." --Rita Mae Brown
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/01/90)
I should clarify two points from my previous posting: (1) I don't know if "RISCOS" is indeed unique or not. However, it is connotatively very ambiguous since there are two OS's with RISC and OS in the name. (2) I hope that my tone did not imply anger at MIPS. But I have been frustrated (quite) by the lack of a good symbol for describing true MIPS systems when building projects using imake. From article <41823@mips.mips.COM>, by rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese): > In article <3201@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >>> We use RISCOS. >>ARGHH, NOOO!! This is not unique. Heard of Acorn Systems in the UK? >> riscos (on RISC OS systems) > > Yes, but cpp is case-sensitive. When we have an ANSI C compiler, we will > use symbols consistent with ANSI. For now, use RISCOS for Mips, and if > you wish to, riscos for ARM. Case-sensitive, true, but still confusing. As a symbol, RISCOS signifies nothing about the company/product line to which it applies. It's better than nothing, perhaps, but I wouldn't say RISCOS qualifies as a good symbol. Oh, well. -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"
rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/02/90)
In article <3202@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >As a symbol, RISCOS signifies >nothing about the company/product line to which it applies. ...no less than "ultrix" or "sun" do... it is our trademark for our operating system, and it is a name linked to all Mips RISComputers and RISCstations. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421 rogerk@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA" "Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." --Rita Mae Brown
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/02/90)
From article <41834@mips.mips.COM>, by rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese): > In article <3202@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >>As a symbol, RISCOS signifies >>nothing about the company/product line to which it applies. > > ....no less than "ultrix" or "sun" do... it is our trademark for our operating > system, and it is a name linked to all Mips RISComputers and RISCstations. Eh? What other company beside DEC do you think for "ultrix"? Or besides Sun for "sun"? Next question: What symbol is used to denote the software architecture for the template files? I.e., what *Architecture symbol is defined for "RISCOS" systems in the header block section of Imake.tmpl? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"
rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/02/90)
In article <3203@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >Eh? What other company beside DEC do you think for "ultrix"? >Or besides Sun for "sun"? Yes, but... my understanding is that RISC/os is a searched and cleared trademark as of a few years ago, so the conflict is not our problem. >Next question: What symbol is used to denote the software architecture >for the template files? I.e., what *Architecture symbol is defined for >"RISCOS" systems in the header block section of Imake.tmpl? As of right now, pre-FCS, subject to change... #ifdef Mips # define MacroIncludeFile "Mips.cf" # define MacroFile Mips.cf # undef Mips # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) # define MipsBsdArchitecture # else /* BSD */ # define MipsSysvArchitecture # endif /* BSD */ #endif /* Mips */ -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421 rogerk@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA" "Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." --Rita Mae Brown
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/02/90)
From article <41836@mips.mips.COM>, by rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese): > Yes, but... my understanding is that RISC/os is a searched and cleared > trademark as of a few years ago, so the conflict is not our problem. OK, fine with me. I'll let Acorn yell about it if they want. >>Next question: What symbol is used to denote the software architecture >>for the template files? I.e., what *Architecture symbol is defined for >>"RISCOS" systems in the header block section of Imake.tmpl? > > As of right now, pre-FCS, subject to change... > > #ifdef Mips > # define MacroIncludeFile "Mips.cf" > # define MacroFile Mips.cf > # undef Mips > # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) > # define MipsBsdArchitecture > # else /* BSD */ > # define MipsSysvArchitecture > # endif /* BSD */ > #endif /* Mips */ Thanks. But... (1) I thought RISCOS was the unique symbol. The block is tested against the symbol "Mips". (2) I take it that Mips{Bsd/Sysv}Architecture defines the software platform. I suggest that the symbol MipsArchitecture also be defined, to indicate the hardware platform, for usage consistent with other platforms listed in Imake.tmpl, e.g., RISC Ultrix systems, SGI systems. (3) > # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) Yow. Why is "#ifdef SYSTYPE_BSD" insufficient? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"
rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) (10/02/90)
In article <3204@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >> #ifdef Mips >> # define MacroIncludeFile "Mips.cf" >> # define MacroFile Mips.cf >> # undef Mips >> # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) >> # define MipsBsdArchitecture >> # else /* BSD */ >> # define MipsSysvArchitecture >> # endif /* BSD */ >> #endif /* Mips */ > >Thanks. But... >(1) I thought RISCOS was the unique symbol. The block is tested against >the symbol "Mips". ...which is elsewhere defined in the Makefiles. This was a decision made by the graphics SW group; OS uses RISCOS, and I don't think either is likely to change in the near future. *Sigh* >(2) I take it that Mips{Bsd/Sysv}Architecture defines the software platform. >I suggest that the symbol MipsArchitecture also be defined, to indicate the >hardware platform, for usage consistent with other platforms listed in >Imake.tmpl, e.g., RISC Ultrix systems, SGI systems. Noted. >(3) > # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) >Yow. Why is "#ifdef SYSTYPE_BSD" insufficient? I think the issue is that code which defines BSD or BSD43 should be treated as if it were generated in -systype bsd43. I'm not sure this is a correct assumption, though. Also, it's *wrong*. It should be "#ifdef SYSTYPE_BSD43"... *double-sigh*. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94086 +1 408 524-7421 rogerk@mips.COM {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk "I'm the NLA" "Lead me not into temptation; I can find the way myself." --Rita Mae Brown
datri@convex.com (Anthony A. Datri) (10/02/90)
>> ....no less than "ultrix" or "sun" do... it is our trademark for our operating >> system, and it is a name linked to all Mips RISComputers and RISCstations. In 4.50, though, I still see mentions of "UMIPS". I wish I knew what I'm supposed to call it. >Eh? What other company beside DEC do you think for "ultrix"? Well, actually, "ultrix" isn't really unique, since there was Ultrix/11 >Or besides Sun for "sun"? There are os's named Lynx and Sprite that run on Sun hardware; I don't know what they define. --
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (10/03/90)
From article <41849@mips.mips.COM>, by rogerk@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese): | In article <3204@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: |>> #ifdef Mips |>> # define MacroIncludeFile "Mips.cf" |>> # define MacroFile Mips.cf |>> # undef Mips |>> # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) |>> # define MipsBsdArchitecture |>> # else /* BSD */ |>> # define MipsSysvArchitecture |>> # endif /* BSD */ |>> #endif /* Mips */ |> |>Thanks. But... |>(1) I thought RISCOS was the unique symbol. The block is tested against |>the symbol "Mips". | | ....which is elsewhere defined in the Makefiles. This was a decision made | by the graphics SW group; OS uses RISCOS, and I don't think either is | likely to change in the near future. *Sigh* Mmm. Mips is defined in the Makefiles? But the Makefiles are generated from the Imakefiles and the templates, and the templates test against Mips. There is a problem here somewhere. >>(3) > # if defined(SYSTYPE_BSD) || defined(BSD) || defined(BSD43) >>Yow. Why is "#ifdef SYSTYPE_BSD" insufficient? > > I think the issue is that code which defines BSD or BSD43 should be > treated as if it were generated in -systype bsd43. I'm not sure this is > a correct assumption, though. It may be possible to get around it by making sure that imakemdep.h defines the correct symbols for ccimake/imake when imake is initially built. Then you could rely on a specific, single symbol in Imake.tmpl. But again, this depends on the contents of BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS being well-defined for the initial configuration. Chicken/egg? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu "Was all of this because I wore a big man's hat?"