chguest@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Guest) (08/02/89)
In an article from ba.news.groups and ca.news.groups, gam@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Gordon Moffett) writes: >In the referenced article, csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) writes: ># The recently voted-on/created news.newusers.questions is, IMHO, the most ># perfect example of a topic that does *not* belong in a newsgroup that I have ># ever seen. It has become an instant cesspool of trivial questions followed ># by a flood of repetitive (and frequently wrong) answers. >I just took a look at news.newusers.questions; Carl's right, >what a mistake this was! Clearly a defect of the "democratic" >process .... It's outta here, too. >Gordon A. Moffett gam@uts.amdahl.com >+1 408 746-8287 {ames,sun,uunet,decwrl}!amdahl!gam It is sad when a few people feel that they are above the rest of us when it comes to deciding whether or not the results of a vote are valid or not. Gordon, Carl, and the rest should allow the following to speak for itself and leave things as they are. Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.misc,misc.misc,news.misc,news.admin,news.sysadmin Path: twwells!bill >From: bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) Subject: RESULTS OF VOTING FOR news.newusers.questions The voting for news.newusers.questions has closed. The numbers are: 274 for 21 against Appended are the names and e-mail addresses of all votes counted. --- No votes: ora!ambar Aydin Edguer alpha.CES.CWRU.Edu!edguer Brian L. Matthews beaver.cs.washington.edu!polari!6sigma!blm Charles A. Sefranek cals01.Newport.RI.US!cals Cyro Lord mimsy!scicom.alphacdc.com!cyrill David Bedno sco.COM!davidbe Eric P. Scott wet!epsilon Erland Sommarskog enea.se!sommar J. Brewster pandora.cs.wayne.edu!jjb Jeffrey James Bryan Carpenter unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu!jjc Karl Tombre loria.crin.fr!tombre Len Rose Netsys.COM!len Mark Brader sq.sq.com!msb Matti O. Jokinen polaris.utu.fi!moj Rich Salz bbn.com!rsalz Ron Heiby chg.mcd.mot.com!heiby scott barman cs.utexas.edu!gatech.edu!dtscp1!scott Scott Boyd futures!fillorkill!scott Tad Guy cs.odu.edu!tadguy Theodore Ts'o ATHENA.MIT.EDU!tytso Werner Uhrig MCC.COM!werner%sw.MCC.COM Yes votes: CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu!FRN%PSUVM.BITNET REL.MIT.EDU!Robert.Polansky alan%essex.ac.uk angate.att.com!anuxh!jpw att!cblph!lml attunix.att.com!mpl beaver.cs.washington.edu!microsoft!billmc compsci.bristol.ac.uk!mackeown concour.cs.concordia.ca!marcap cs.utexas.edu!texbell!vector!warble!holston!barton cup.portal.com!Tim_CDC_Roberts dcisea!david dcw%doc.imperial.ac.uk dente%ecad-lead-site.electrical-engineering.manchester.ac.uk dmccart%cadedn.intel.com elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov!nesel enzyme.Berkeley.Edu!ichiro lilac.berkeley.edu!c60a-2ku%WEB.Berkeley.EDU microsoft!bethmo mimsy!asuvax.asu.edu!asuvax.anasaz!duane planet.bt.co.uk!gpc psgdc!root psych.toronto.edu!chris relay.nswc.navy.mil!dsill revcan!toshrct!root thewev!root tut.fi!mk59200 ucscc.UCSC.EDU!clanhlm!blank utkcs2.cs.utk.edu!wade utstat.toronto.edu!webber vsi!friedl adam louis rose tank.uchicago.edu!adam AFTERBURNER budwzr.enet.dec.com!berger Alan J Holmes Alan.Holmes%brunel.ac.uk Alan J Rosenthal dgp.toronto.edu!flaps Allen Perkins pmafire!adp Anders Thulin prosys!ath Andreas Pagel mauhk%cu.warwick.ac.uk Andy Cowling arc@concurrent.co.uk Andy Ingle acorn.co.uk!andy Andy Sherman ulysses.att.com!andys Anthony J Stieber csd4.milw.wisc.edu!astieber Ari Halberstadt eleazar.dartmouth.edu!ari Art Werschulz cs.columbia.edu!agw Barry Roskuski prism.TMC.COM!roskuski Barton E. Schaefer cse.ogc.edu!schaefer Ben Yalow CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!YBMCU Bengt Larsson MATHS.LTH.Se!bengtl Bernd Messenbrink unido!gmdzi!mes Bernhard Kraft unido!cadlab!berni Bernhard Ruef at Autelca mcvax!hslrswi!ncr1!ruef Bertil Jonell ranko.cd.chalmers.se!bertil Bill Callahan prism.TMC.COM!billc Bill Fenner ECL.PSU.Edu!WCF Bill Kennedy cs.utexas.edu!inebriae.WLK.COM!bill Bill Stewart cbnewsh.ATT.COM!wcs Bill Vermillion uiucuxc!bilver!bill Billy Harvey LANL.GOV!wxh%alpha Bjorn Engsig nlhp3.oracle.nl!bengsig Blonder dtix.ARPA!fred Bob Sloane kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!SLOANE Bob Thrush tarpit!rd Bob Tinkelman ccavax.camb.com!tinkelman Bob Weissman omni.com!bob Boyd Nation ingr!boyd Brant Cheikes manta.pha.pa.us!brant Brendan Kehoe brendan@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US Brian Miller cvl.umd.edu!brian Brian Schipper apple.com!claris!skip Bruce Schuchardt sequent!ogccse!servio!bruce bruce.h.simon cbnews.ATT.COM!bhs Carlo Sgro watmath!watcgl!electro!carlo Catherine A. Foulston brazos.rice.edu!cathyf Charlie Geyer mica.stat.washington.edu!charlie Charlie Goldensher vicorp!charlie Chris Lewis ecicrl!clewis Christopher K Davis bu-it.bu.edu!ckd%bucsb.BU.EDU Chuck Taylor dcisea!chuck Clive Feather ixi!clive Craig Poling src.honeywell.com!poling Daniel F. Boyd bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu!consp04 Daniel Gene Sinclair med.unc.edu!danielg Darren Austin lily.ucdavis.edu!austin Dave Bilar tymix!antares.Tymnet.COM!dbilar dave brown motto!dave Dave England condor.hac.com!dave David Brennan DG-RTP.DG.COM!brennan David Buck phd01%seq1.keele.ac.uk David C Lawrence pawl.rpi.edu!tale David Chalmers cogsci.indiana.edu!dave David Datta vacs.uwp.wisc.edu!datta David F. Fordyce BRL.MIL!fordyce David H. Brierley Galaxia.Newport.RI.US!dave David Herron ms.uky.edu!david David Joseph Grabiner phoenix.Princeton.EDU!djgrabin David Kuder sun!indetech!david David Stodolsky diku.dk!stodol David Tamkin dattier@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US David Wright stl.stc.co.uk!dww Dieter Woerz unido!isaak!zuse!woerz Dinesh K. Prabhu amelia.nas.nasa.gov!prabhu Don Joslyn don@dons3b1.UUCP Doron Zifrony CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!zifrony%TAURUS.BITNET Dr. T. Andrews bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!tanner Dwayne Herron nisc.nyser.net!dwayne e c andrews eeandrew%pyramid.swansea.ac.uk Ed Hew watmath!egvideo!edhew Eddy Carroll CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU!ECARROLL%vax1.tcd.ie eddy keller ccicpg!bohica!eddy Eric Black Atherton.COM!hpda!ericb Eric Schnoebelen cs.utexas.edu!texbell!egsner!eric Eric Stromberg wrs!yuba!eric Erick B. Woertz frith.egr.msu.edu!woertze Erik Naggum ifi.uio.no!enag Erik Talvola cory.Berkeley.EDU!talvola Frank Mayhar ladc.bull.com!frank Fraser S. lake.scar.utoronto.ca!fraser Fred Rump from home icdi10!fr Garrett A. Wollman uvm-gen!tnl!gwollman Gary Gallaher pbseps!root Geoff Allen pmafire!geoff Gerald Vogt unido!isaak!vogt Germaine Leveque cs.columbia.edu!germaine Gordon C. Galligher teleng!gorpong Gordon Edwards ncratl!edwards Govind N. Kamat uceng.UC.EDU!kamat H. Miller pavlov.bcm.tmc.edu!rick Richard Hal Birkeland media-lab.media.mit.edu!hkbirke Henrik Holmstr nada.kth.se!d87-hho Hermansen Paw imada.dk!paw Howard M. Kash BRL.MIL!hmkash Howard,Robert L gatech.edu!rh26%prism Ignatius Tan siesoft.co.uk!ig J. Kivi Shapiro kivi%watcsc.waterloo.edu J. Philip Miller wubios.WUstl.EDU!phil James Clark jclark!jjc James D. Oliver III athena.mit.edu!oliver Jan-Hinrich Fessel unido!laura.irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de!jf Jay Maynard splut.conmicro.com!jay Jeff Aldrich wimp.stanford.edu!aldrich Jeff Beadles jeff%quark.wv.tek.com Jeff Chan ames.arc.nasa.gov!chan Jeff Makey LOGICON.ARPA!Makey Jeffrey R. Raff BRL.MIL!raff Jerry B. Altzman cunixc.cc.columbia.edu!jbaltz Jerry Lee xyzzy.auto-trol!jerlee Jim Davis SCIENCE.UTAH.EDU!POSTMASTER Jim Metzger bpa.bell-atl.com!jcm joann.melnik cbnewsi.ATT.COM!melnik Joel B Levin BBN.COM!levin Joerg Stippa unido!isaak!gauss!stippa Johan Vromans mh.nl!jv John A. Ockerbloom YALE.ARPA!ockerbloom-john John Bromell camcon.co.uk!jyb John J. Bulten backus.trc.amoco.com!zjjb20 John Sparks corpane!sparks Jon Grantham super.org!grantham Jon Thatcher claris.com!thatcher Jonathan M. Prigot wrgrac1!j_prigot Jorma PJ Jokela kolvi.hut.fi!jjo Justin F. Miller wpi.wpi.edu!fjfm Karen Ward wardk%cse.ogc.edu Karsten Smelser pnet51.cts.com!nevar Keith Goldfarb tis.llnl.gov!celia!keith Keith Wandry pioneer.arc.nasa.gov!wandry Ken Arromdee aplcen.apl.jhu.edu!arrom Ken Kaufman gmuvax2.gmu.edu!kaufman ken streeter disney.crd.ge.com!streeter Kenneth A. Burgess magellan.arc.nasa.gov!kburgess Kent Landfield ssbell!root Kevin Benton VAX1.CC.UAKRON.EDU!benton Kevin O'Gorman apple.com!ames!kosman.UUCP!root Kevin Paul Girard wpi.wpi.edu!fkpg Kurt Gollhardt rutgers!nirvo!kdg Kurt Klement gould!sun!acad!uunet!mcvax!wsr!klement Kyle Jones talos!kjones Larry Setlow yin.cpac.washington.edu!pjt Laurence Macgregor Michaels minnie.cc.utexas.edu!larrym Leila Burrell-Davis leilabd%syma.sussex.ac.uk Len Mills elxsi!len Lenny Glassmann ccavax.camb.com!glassmann Lez Oxley lezo%syma.sussex.ac.uk Louis J. Vroomen datac.McRCIM.McGill.EDU!vroomen Malcolm Mladenovic oasis.icl.stc.co.uk!mbm Marc Unangst mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us!mju Marissa Padilla mstr.hgc.edu!marissa mark c anderson ugly.cs.ubc.ca!manderso Mark Feldman miyoko.stars.flab.fujitsu.junet!feldmark Mark Phillips stl.stc.co.uk!msp Mark Robert Smith topaz.rutgers.edu!msmith Mark Urban-Lurain cpswh.cps.msu.edu!urban Martin 'Sulu' Thurn cis.ohio-state.edu!thurn Mary Margaret Schuck dretor.dciem.dnd.ca!schuck Matt F. Cary amelia.nas.nasa.gov!cary Matt S Wartell unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu!msw Matthew R. Lewis eniac.seas.upenn.edu!lewis Matthew William Daly andrew.cmu.edu!md1y+ Michael Keane space.mit.edu!mk%alioth Michael Lau watmath!sce!cognos!roadrunner!mikel Michael S. Kelsen sunny.dab.ge.com!kelsen Michael Sanderson cs.ubc.ca!sanders Michelle Dick ames!ATHENA.MIT.EDU!mit-athena!artemis mike anthis sleepy!bugs!anthis Mike Edmunds verity.com!medmunds Mike Northam tektronix.TEK.COM!fpssun.UUCP!sns4!mbn Mitchell Spector beaver.cs.washington.edu!sumax!spector Nick Kings axion.bt.co.uk!nkings Norman Diamond diamond%csl.sony.jp Norman Joseph hc.dspo.gov!rt1!ditka!oglvee!norm Norman R. Gall nexus.yorku.ca!gall Patt Haring sci.ccny.cuny.edu!patth Paul Maclauchlan moore!paul Paul Sutcliffe Jr. devon.lns.pa.us!paul Pete Sherwood ittg!pete Peter B. Hayward tank.uchicago.edu!pbhx Phil Smyth hal.CWRU.Edu!hal9000!root Philip Jeuck unix.sri.com!jeuck Pierre Gauvin ncs.dnd.ca!pgauvin Pontus Matstoms math.liu.se!pomat Rachel Pearce rpearce%stats.ucl.ac.uk Randy M. Roberts emx.utexas.edu!phao172 Ray Moody gibbs.physics.purdue.edu!ray ray shaw psych.toronto.edu!raymond REED CHRISTIANSEN chewi.che.wisc.edu!christiansen Reid Ellis alias!repo!rae Reynolds McClatchey safn2!rey.Southern.Aluminum.Finishing.Co.Atlanta.GA Rich Hemmer philabs.Philips.Com!vampire Richard L. Kruse II tusun2.knet.utulsa.edu!rlk R.M. O'Neill sys.uea.ac.uk!cmp7130 Rob Caplan Polya.Stanford.EDU!caplan Robert Knauerhase alpha.CES.CWRU.Edu!rck Robert Striker DPW.NYU.EDU!striker Roger Critchlow elf115!rec Roger Leroux uvicctr.UVic.ca!rleroux1 Rohan Kelley bigbroth!rk Ron Bradley pioneer.arc.nasa.gov!bradley Ron Widell chg.mcd.mot.com!motmpl!ron Ronald Khoo ibmpcug.co.uk!ronald Roy Smith phri.phri.nyu.edu!roy Samuel B. Bassett magellan.arc.nasa.gov!samlb Scott A. C. McIntyre ssyx.ucsc.edu!avalon Scott Huddleston scott%tekcrl.labs.tek.com Seth Robertson cunixc.cc.columbia.edu!sethr Sonja Kueppers CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu!SEK%PSUVM.BITNET Steve Dever Sun.COM!steved Steve Poole emx.utexas.edu!poole Steve Seidman paxvax.EE.cornell.edu!seid Steven Gabai paul.rutgers.edu!gabai Steven Glenn Fox watt.acc.virginia.edu!sgf0z Steven Zepp writer.yorku.ca!stevenz Stuart L. Labovitz afit-ab.arpa!slabovit Susan C Wade wpi.wpi.edu!susan Susan J Flaster narya.att.com!sjf Suzanne Sluizer harvard!bunny!slzr T. William Wells bill@twwells.com Tapani Tarvainen jyu.fi!tarvaine Terry Roebuck CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu!ROEBUCK%ADSY05.USask.CA Thomas Lapp mvac23!thomas Tim J Ihde attdso.att.com!tim Tim Lapin maxwell.concordia.ca!timl Tim Ramsey ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu!tar Tim Scott trout.nosc.mil!scott Timo Kiravuo hut.fi!kiravuo Timo Salmi LASK uwasa.fi!ts Tom Limoncelli pilot.njin.net!limonce Tom Magliery (Mag) cs.uiuc.edu!magliery Tom Portante psocg!portante Tony Wilson nluug.nl!shapetc!wilson Tracey Baker cbnewsm.ATT.COM!tab Trip Martin uruguay.acm.rpi.edu!night William Lewis blake.acs.washington.edu!wiml Wolf Paul killer.Dallas.TX.US!wnp Yun-seng Chao cinnet!yun >From bill Thu Jul 27 23:55:31 1989 To: uunet!dover.sps.mot.com!sps.mot.com!fullmer Subject: Re: List : To: objectivism-request@twwells.com : Subject: List : : : path fullmer@dover.sps.mot.com : send index : quit That has to be sent to "objectivism-server@twwells.com" not "objectivism-request@twwells.com". --- Bill { uunet | novavax | ankh | sunvice } !twwells!bill bill@twwells.com "We never make assertions, Miss Taggart. That is the moral crime peculiar to our enemies. We do not tell -- we *show*. We do not claim -- we *prove*." -- Hugh Akston in _Atlas Shrugged_
tneff@bfmny0.UUCP (Tom Neff) (08/02/89)
Actually all the anti-n.n.q. venom and spume should be summarized in n.n.q. on a regular basis so that new users learn as early as possible about the net.snob phenomenon. They'll find out sooner or later... We need a new entry for Emily Postnews -- -------------------------------------------------------- Q: I have decided not to carry newsgroup X at my site because it's not what I want from the net. How should I go about it? A: Don't just add !X to your sys file, that would be wimpy. Loudly announce to the rest of the world that you're dropping newsgroup X, and why, and encourage everyone to do the same thing. To start the biggest flame war you can -- THAT'S what you want from the net! -------------------------------------------------------- anyway... Repetitive "scrimmage line pile-up" followups where 38 people answer the same basic question, are of course a danger here. But unlike groups such as rec.debra.winger where the subject matter is of perennial interest and everyone is happy to "pile on," slogging one's way through basic questions again and again is a thankless task which will bore people quickly. I expect the pileup sizes to be small. Still there should be a specific injunction about this in the frequently asked questions roundup in n.n.q. -- "We walked on the moon -- (( Tom Neff you be polite" )) tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET
mesard@bbn.com (Wayne Mesard) (08/03/89)
In article <14507@bfmny0.UUCP> tneff@bfmny0.UUCP (Tom Neff) writes: >I expect the pileup sizes to be small. Still there >should be a specific injunction about this in the frequently asked >questions roundup in n.n.q. Specifically, there should be an admonition to potential respondents to READ ALL NEW ARTICLES before replying to any. This won't eliminate the problem, but it will lessen it significantly. [It should also urge the use of eMail as opposed to a follow-up article, whenever appropriate.] The group is young. Cut it a chance. We'll get it under control. -- unsigned *Wayne_Mesard(); "No, it's not a Zippy quote. I'm Mesard@BBN.COM being serious." BBN, Cambridge, MA
cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) (08/03/89)
Quit yer whining! n.n.q is obviously a good idea. Clearly only those willing to tolerate simple questions need read it. Why should it offend others? Trivial questions? To who? Surely not those who post here. I'm sure it's a blessing to many confused users. The whole thing rests on those who are willing and able to act as teachers. Although I'm a (relatively) experienced netter, I've learned some very useful things. -- O----------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (08/03/89)
In article <4547@eos.UUCP> chguest@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov.UUCP (C. J. Guest) writes: }In an article from ba.news.groups and ca.news.groups, } gam@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Gordon Moffett) writes: }>In the referenced article, csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) writes: }># The recently voted-on/created news.newusers.questions is, IMHO, the most }># perfect example of a topic that does *not* belong in a newsgroup that I have }># ever seen. It has become an instant cesspool of trivial questions followed }># by a flood of repetitive (and frequently wrong) answers. }>I just took a look at news.newusers.questions; Carl's right, }>what a mistake this was! Clearly a defect of the "democratic" }>process .... It's outta here, too. }>Gordon A. Moffett gam@uts.amdahl.com }>+1 408 746-8287 {ames,sun,uunet,decwrl}!amdahl!gam } } }It is sad when a few people feel that they are above the rest of us }when it comes to deciding whether or not the results of a vote are }valid or not. Gordon, Carl, and the rest should allow the following }to speak for itself and leave things as they are. } } [voting results deleted] Thanks to the poorness with which the notes were written, you've entirely missed their point, which _might_ be valid. There is a problem: it is VERY hard for newcomers to pick up all the lore, abbreviations, conventions, etc that are the underpinnings of making this whole exercise more-or-less work. Now, net.announce.newusers is a wonderful thing, but it suffers from two problems: * on almost every site it is almost always empty (due to problems with the expiration of the messages.. this is not the place to discuss THAT problem and why it prevails, only to observe that it is true) * As good as those postings are, they cannot actually answer EVERY qustion a newcomer might have... having an interactive advisor is clearly necessary and useful. The question is how best to answer those needs. The fact that we "voted" on them, and that some plurality of folks with enough insight to type "R" and then "yes" said "go do it" *hardly* means that we (the collective we here) have necessarily hit upon the best way to deal with these problems. The first thing I observe is that I hope someone is watching this group and selecting appropriate things for inclusion in the news.announce.newusers ``information packet''. The second thing, which is more disturbing, is that intentions aside, it is bothersome seeing assorted responses range from the outrageously ill-informed to the profoundly deep (from which most ALL of us could learn something), and everywhere in between. The third thing is that there should be some mechanism to get new users to use *availalbe* resources to find out answers, rather than just poking here for anything that crosses their mind [same logic here as with directory assistance: you should try to look it up YOURSELF in the phone book before you call, right?] I don't know how this experiment is going to work out, but I DO think it is worth evaluating it and seeing if it proving to be useful or workable. The most obvious thing that comes to mind would be to make it moderated; another (as was suggested) might be to limit its distribution to the local site. Dunno, but it is certainly worth watching and deciding if this is bit of net bandwidth is actually SERVING the purpose for which the 'yes' voters intended it. It is really too early to say one way or the other, but the early indications, to my eye, are just as the 'ba' folk observed: this is going to be a bit TOO unruly to really do its job well, but I'm willing to wait and see. __ / ) Bernie Cosell /--< _ __ __ o _ BBN Sys & Tech, Cambridge, MA 02238 /___/_(<_/ (_/) )_(_(<_ cosell@bbn.com
chguest@magellan.arc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Guest) (08/04/89)
In article <4548@eos.UUCP> eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
=>I personally side with Gordon on this one despite Charles Guest's post
=>of the vote tabulation. The reason is that the information I've seen
=>thus far posted has been frequently incorrect, half true, over-simplified.
The problem with this argument is that if we nuked every group that had
a high percentage of incorrect, half-true, or oversimplified
information we would end up rmgrouping almost every newsgroup on the
net.
=>The issue isn't elitism, it's burn out.
Those who are going to burn out on it can always 'change the channel'.
[read 'u']
=>The problem is that we can't ignore these new users, they will only cause
=>further problems down the line. You only need look at general,
Agreed. Many systems do not have a newsadmin. The news utilities on
these systems were set up by a sysadmin who had little or no intrest in
the net and was only doing so to make his people happy. The man pages
are not enough and there is almost noplace to get further documentation
or to get simple questions answered.
Instead of rmgrouping this newsgroup we need to come up with a 'guidance
article' to be posted every few weeks (days:-) that explains what the
group is about and asks users to (among other things):
Read *ALL* articles first before asking a question or replying
to one.
Reply to *ALL* basic questions using e-mail and not by a reply
postings to the newsgroup.
Encourage users with similar questions to e-mail the poster
that originally sent the question to the net requesting him
to mail them a summary of the answers. (admittedly hard to
implement - but it would relieve some of the traffic.)
Set up a 'frequently asked questions' packet or article that
could be sent to users requesting it or posted to the n.n.q
group on a scheduled basssis.
Encourage newusers to wait for a while to see if their question
gets answered before they post.
The news.newusers.questions newsgroup also should, (and is to an
extent), be(ing) used by not so new users to ask more in depth questions
relating to the net and the news utilities. Just because questions as
basic as "How do I post my signature?" are asked does not mean that the
group can't be usefull for more complicated questions by old hands.
In the words of another poster: Cut the thing a chance !!
========================================================================
+ *READ* ---> The opinions expressed above are to the best of my knowledge, +
+ however all options should be discussed with persons who have professional+
+ training with the subjects covered here. * ALL POSSIBLE DISCLAIMERS APPLY!+
+___FROM: chguest@magellan.arc.nasa.gov =>or<= sun!ames!magellan!chguest____+cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Cliff Joslyn) (08/04/89)
In article <43728@bbn.COM> cosell@BBN.COM (Bernie Cosell) writes: >There is a problem: it is VERY >hard for newcomers to pick up all the lore, abbreviations, conventions, etc >that are the underpinnings of making this whole exercise more-or-less work. >Now, net.announce.newusers is a wonderful thing, but it suffers from two >problems: * on almost every site it is almost always empty (due to problems > with the expiration of the messages.. this is not the place to > discuss THAT problem and why it prevails, only to observe that it > is true) > * As good as those postings are, they cannot actually answer EVERY > qustion a newcomer might have... having an interactive advisor is > clearly necessary and useful. Excellent analysis: *clearly news is not the best way to distribute the n.a.newuser packets*! If n.n.q was moderated, the moderator could act as a manual file server. An actual server could be set up, but that begs the question: how does a novice know to get to the server? What is needed is an obvious way to get help, i.e. a newsgroup to post to. Other topics that should be addressed in newuser docs for automatic distribution: How to work uuen/decode/zoo How to work ftp Where the primary archive locations are etc. Just my 2 cents. -- O----------------------------------------------------------------------> | Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large | Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton, cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
chris@psych.toronto.edu (Christine Hitchcock) (08/05/89)
This is in response to folks wondering whether this group is useful. Maybe having a moderator to check the usefulness of the answers would be a good idea. And knowing where to look on your own would also be nice (BTW, where do I find the FM so I can read it??). Just my $.02. -- Chris Hitchcock, Dept. of Psychology | chris@psych.toronto.edu University of Toronto, | hitchcoc@vm.utcs.utoronto.ca Toronto, Ontario, CANADA M5S 1A1 | <insert chickadee about here> ____________________________________________________________________
eam@soleil.UUCP (Ed A. Mills) (08/05/89)
I posted "Basic Questions" with great reservation as I expected experienced net-people would find them trivial. However, the questions were well-meaning and, as hard as it may be to believe, I really didn't know the answers. I tried other sources first, but there are only about 2 or 3 other news users that I know of on this site, and compared to some of them, I'm an expert! As a VMS programmer, my entire unix/Sun library is a Sunlink DNI User's Guide; there isn't a unix machine in this entire building! I guess I'm crawling for forgiveness, but on the whole the posting was worth the animosity (flames?) as I recieved many mailings and postings, all of which I read with great interest. I'm not an expert yet, but I made progress thanx to them. Some of us have site training, other take what they can get... Ed Mills Harris Semi Melbourne, FL