karen@everexn.uucp (Karen Valentino) (09/30/89)
From: tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence)
David Lawrence writes:
DCL> Here is something that many of us perceive to be a big problem with
DCL> RTFM postings. Do you really believe that RTFM is a kind request? It
DCL> is neither; it is an imperative and a rude one at that.
At the risk of perpetuating what is fast becoming a meta-discussion,
I'll add that, as a relatively new user with many hours of frustration
from wrestling with a new editor and new operating system, and all the
new processes and syntaxes attendant, I know how hard it can be to get
into second gear on the net. It has taken me a couple of months to be
able to RTFmaps, and to FTFmans (find the manuals). Now I know how to
get email from here to there, and how and where to post. But it took
me some effort and lots of reading news to figure it out. I also had to
swallow my pride and ask my system administrator, and others here who
know how to use Unix and vi, a million stoooopid questions.
Not everyone on the net has a guru system administrator. (Not everyone
has a system administrator, period.) Also, some of the system administrators
on the net are programmers who have other work to do besides answering
neophyte questions. And some of us (this from personal experience) may
hesitate to ask the nth Idiot Neophyte Question because we happen to
*know* that our system administrator has programming to do. In my case,
my sys admin knows lots about Unix, but I always think twice before I
bother him. Neophytes need to have a place to go where they don't feel
they're imposing/wasting someone's time. This group is a godsend.
In reading articles, I've often found interesting and useful tidbits that
I might easily have overlooked reading TFM. I say, it's useful to post
these tidbits that may be of general interest. And I say, it's useful
to help someone locate the manuals (believe me, it can be pretty over-
whelming to locate something when you're not even sure where to look).
It's *not* useful (IMO) to direct someone to the manuals as if
they should already know where they are (or even *that* they are). It's
like penalizing someone for not doing something that they weren't aware
it was possible to do!
Maybe we should start some kind of Neophytes Advocacy Group (NAG?!) (:-)
Karen
__
Karen Valentino > ..ucbvax!well!fico2!everexn!karen
Everex North, Sebastopol, CA < ..uunet!island!grenada!everexn!karen
(satellite of Everex Systems > ..pacbell!mslbrb!everexn!karen
--
Karen Valentino
Everex Systems, Inc.
Sebastopol, Ca.bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) (10/04/89)
In article <1989Sep30.001939.20472@everexn.uucp> karen@everexn.uucp (Karen Valentino) writes:
: At the risk of perpetuating what is fast becoming a meta-discussion,
: I'll add that, as a relatively new user with many hours of frustration
: from wrestling with a new editor and new operating system, and all the
: new processes and syntaxes attendant, I know how hard it can be to get
: into second gear on the net. It has taken me a couple of months to be
: able to RTFmaps, and to FTFmans (find the manuals). Now I know how to
: get email from here to there, and how and where to post. But it took
: me some effort and lots of reading news to figure it out. I also had to
: swallow my pride and ask my system administrator, and others here who
: know how to use Unix and vi, a million stoooopid questions.
I'll add this: I'm a professional programmer with nearly 20 years of
experience. I was a child prodigy (you know: the calculus at 9 kind
of thing?). I'm probably the most intelligent person I know. (I also
don't have a drop of modesty. :-)
Yet reading the FM is often unenlightening, even for me. Communication
is a specialized skill; programmers, who are usually the authors of
the FM's, are notoriously bad at it. (BTW, there is *no* excuse for
that. Anyone who can write a program half decently is certainly
capable of writing a readable document! On the other hand, some of
the code I've seen...!)
It is because reading the FM does not guarantee enlightenment, no
matter how smart or conscientious you are, that merely saying RTFM is
almost always inappropriate. Not only that, but the questioner may
not *have* the FM, or may not know which on that 30 feet of manuals
is the right one.
On the other hand, merely answering the question is not right. For
one thing, people who ask RTFM questions frequently are ignorant of
issues that are relevant to their question. Moreoever, we are going
to be much better off if we *educate* those we answer rather than
merely giving them information.
Thus even RTFM questions should be treated with care. My suggestion
for answering RTFM questions is:
1) Answer the specific question if you can.
2) Tell him where the answer can be found.
3) Tell him of additional material that might also be of interest.
4) Give additional useful information that is not in any FM
or is not in any easy to get FM.
Obviously, not all questions need a research paper for an answer :-),
but thinking of those four things can result in an informative.
posting. Who knows? You might even find out something new and useful
while composing your answer.
: Neophytes need to have a place to go where they don't feel
: they're imposing/wasting someone's time. This group is a godsend.
Nah. It's a Wells-send. :-) And I wanted this group for precisely
that reason.
: In reading articles, I've often found interesting and useful tidbits that
: I might easily have overlooked reading TFM.
So have I.
: Maybe we should start some kind of Neophytes Advocacy Group (NAG?!) (:-)
We just need to make it clear that flames directed at neophytes are
totally unwelcome in this group.
Remember: everyone is a neophyte at one time and, if you aren't
moribund, you will again be a neophyte at *something*.
---
Bill { uunet | novavax | ankh | sunvice } !twwells!bill
bill@twwells.comjeffd@ficc.uu.net (jeff daiell) (10/04/89)
Bill Wells writes: > I'm probably the most intelligent person I know. Hmmm. Since you and I have corresponded, Bill, that's no longer true. But second place isn't so bad. {|8^)] {|8^)] {|8^)] Salve lucrum, Jeff -- "Truth has always been found to promote the best interests of mankind..." -- Percy Bysshe Shelley