jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) (01/18/90)
There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly evil thing. This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and about skinheads. How do I do it ? John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor - Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality. emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** |
jill@tank.uchicago.edu (jill holly hansen) (01/19/90)
In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes:
:
:There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by
:wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly
:evil thing.
:
:This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and
:about skinheads.
:
:How do I do it ?
:
:
:John
:
:--
:John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor -
:Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality.
:emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** |
How about starting a mailing list first, and, if that indicates
that enough people care about skin heads, then propose to start a
news group.--
==========================
Jill Hansen
Jill@tank.uchicago.edumoynihan_r@apollo.HP.COM (Robert Moynihan) (01/20/90)
In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes: > >There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by >wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly >evil thing. > The media has nothing to do with it. Any time I've seen skinheads appearing on television, they have displayed their vile natures all by themselves. They needed no help from the media in showing what utterly wretched creatures they are. >This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and >about skinheads. The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. They tout the absurdity of white supremacy to the world as a way to make themselves feel that their inability to make anything of their lives is a result of some great "black consipracy", and not their unwillingness to work for their own betterment. For all intents and purposes, they are the teens of the KKK. How is this not a terribly evil thing? > >How do I do it ? Spare us, please. This sort of bigoted trash the world can do without. > > >John > >-- >John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor - >Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality. >emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** | Bob ============================///==================================== moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com /// "Winners are losers who got up and Plink: Moynihan \\\/// gave it just one more try." Hewlett-Packard/Apollo \XX/ -Dennis DeYoung
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (01/20/90)
She said that he said that she said that jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) said:
-
-There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by
-wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly
-evil thing.
-
-This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and
-about skinheads.
-
-How do I do it ?
RTFM. Instructions for starting a new newsgroup are posted in
news.announce.newusers AND gets crossposted to news.groups and news.admin.
This happens once a month; it just happened about and should happen
again in a week or so.
As for the newsgroup...is it time for soc.culture.skinhead? Maybe
soc.culture.punk?
--
David Bedno, Systems Administrator, The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Email: davidbe@sco.COM / ..!{uunet,sun,ucbvax!ucscc,gorn}!sco!davidbe
Phone: 408-425-7222 x5123 Disclaimer: Speaking from SCO but not for SCO.
my toes know the ramble, and i can dance my dance - chaoswbt@cbnews.ATT.COM (William B. Thacker) (01/20/90)
(also sent directly to Mr. De Armond via email)
John;
I thought you should be made aware that some moron is posting
forged articles using your name. I suggest that you might wish
to post a formal denial of having said anything so ridiculous
as this.
- - - - - - - - valuable coupon - - - - - - - clip and save - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker AT&T Network Systems - Columbus wbt@cbnews.att.com
I'm the NRA
In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes:
:
:There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by
:wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly
:evil thing.
:
:This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and
:about skinheads.
:
:How do I do it ?
:
:
:John
:
:--
:John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor -
:Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality.
:emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** | xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) (01/20/90)
In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes: > >There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by >wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly >evil thing. > >This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and >about skinheads. > >How do I do it ? > > >John > >-- >John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor - >Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality. >emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** | First, you get the Jewish Anti-defamation League (yes, I have no idea what the correct spelling of Bnai Brith might be) to recant their recent anouncement that anti-Semetic activity was up significantly in this country in 1989, primarily due to a 200% increase in incidents attributed to skinheads. Crawl back into your swamp and die, slime! -- Again, my opinions, not the account furnishers'. xanthian@well.sf.ca.us xanthian@ads.com (Kent Paul Dolan) Kent, the (bionic) man from xanth, now available as a build-a-xanthian kit at better toy stores near you. Warning - some parts proven fragile. -> METAFONT, TeX, graphics programming done on spec -- (415) 964-4486 <-
someone@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Mike Benefield) (01/21/90)
In article <48215758.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com (Robert Moynihan) writes: >In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes: >> >>This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and >>about skinheads. > >The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. >They tout the absurdity of white supremacy to the world as a way to make >themselves feel that their inability to make anything of their lives is a >result of some great "black consipracy", and not their unwillingness to work >for their own betterment. For all intents and purposes, they are the teens >of the KKK. > >How is this not a terribly evil thing? > >> >>How do I do it ? > >Spare us, please. This sort of bigoted trash the world can do without. > Okay, I'll agree with EVERYTHING he said about how horrible the skins are. Every time I see a skin, adrenaline rushes through my veins and I put my hand on my knife. Skins may be a real danger today but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to speak. If you try to censor anything, then you end up just as low as Tom Metzger. "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" "Nazi punks Nazi punks Nazi punks FUCK OFF!!" -Dead Kennedys ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Benefield UUCP: (seismo!umcp-cs | allegra!hopkins)!jhunix!someone Internet: someone@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | zap!pow!boom!bang ^^^^^^^ this isn't a joke -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (01/21/90)
In article <48215758.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com (Robert Moynihan) writes: |In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes: |> |>There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by |>wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly |>evil thing. |> | |The media has nothing to do with it. Any time I've seen skinheads appearing |on television, they have displayed their vile natures all by themselves. They |needed no help from the media in showing what utterly wretched creatures they are. | |>This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and |>about skinheads. | |The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. |They tout the absurdity of white supremacy to the world as a way to make |themselves feel that their inability to make anything of their lives is a |result of some great "black consipracy", and not their unwillingness to work |for their own betterment. For all intents and purposes, they are the teens |of the KKK. | |How is this not a terribly evil thing? | |> |>How do I do it ? | |Spare us, please. This sort of bigoted trash the world can do without. Hey, Bob (if that's really your name), listen up. YOU are a bigoted asshole. The skinhead community, just like many others, has certainly got its share of rightwing dodos aching for extinction. But also, like many others, there are some pretty amazing people among them who don't share those views. How well does a skinhead using the net fit in with your tiny concepts? John has asked for help to overcome the image problem that skinheads seem to have - you better find out what he's got in mind before you open your mouth. Growl, -- ,,,, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. w \$$/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `/c/-e BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET _/ >_ "Money is the root of all money" - Adam
levy@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (Daniel R. Levy) (01/21/90)
In article <10524@saturn.ADS.COM>, xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) writes:
< >There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by
< >wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly
< >evil thing.
< >This is wholly untrue, and I would like to start a newsgroup for and
< >about skinheads.
< >How do I do it ?
< >John
< >John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor -
< >Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality.
< >emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** |
< First, you get the Jewish Anti-defamation League (yes, I have no idea
< what the correct spelling of Bnai Brith might be) to recant their
you got it right modulo apostrophes (B'nai B'rith)
< recent anouncement that anti-Semetic activity was up significantly in
< this country in 1989, primarily due to a 200% increase in incidents
< attributed to skinheads.
<
< Crawl back into your swamp and die, slime!
Let me put in a plug here, for the Southern Poverty Law Center, which valiently
takes up the (legal) cudgel on behalf of minorities (mainly blacks) victimized
by skinheads, KKKers, etc. If you're indignant about the skinhead situation,
try voting with your dollars to these folks. I do.
Southern Poverty Law Center
400 Washington Avenue
Mongomery, Alabama 36195
--
Daniel R. Levy >>> God: just say "yes" <<<
AT&T Bell Laboratories UNIX(R) mail: att!ttbcad!levy, att!cbnewsc!levy
5555 West Touhy Avenue Any opinions expressed in the message above are
Skokie, Illinois 60077 mine, and not necessarily AT&T's.moynihan_r@apollo.HP.COM (Robert Moynihan) (01/22/90)
- Okay, a brief recap: John DeArmond proposed a skinheads newsgroup, saying that they have been mis-cast by the media. I replied that the skinheads are extremely vile and evil. There were various messages that followed, concernin them, including information I was unaware of: That the original skinheads are nothing like the ones that tout the white supremacist, neo-nazi claptrap. I confess, I had had never heard of peaceful, understanding, love-thy-neighbor skinheads. If these things are true, and if Mr. DeArmond is defending those original people, then perhaps his proposal has merit. But my favorite message is this one: > > Hey, Bob (if that's really your name), listen up. > Yes, it's my name, why would I use another? I'm listening. > YOU are a bigoted asshole. > Thank you very much, nice to know you have a colorful vocabulary. How can you judge an individual you have never met? I was judging a group I have heard of many times, one that has invariably shown itself to be as I stated. If there are others that go by that name that are otherwise, I never heard of it before. Pardon me for being so vocal. Racism really ticks me off. > The skinhead community, just like many others, > has certainly got its share of rightwing dodos > aching for extinction. > Those are the only ones I have ever heard of. > But also, like many others, there are some > pretty amazing people among them who don't > share those views. > So several people have said since I posted my diatribe. If that's the case, mayhap Mr. DeArmond has a point. > How well does a skinhead using the net fit in > with your tiny concepts? > What tiny concepts? Like the concept that people should be able to live, work, play, and go to school wherever they choose, without fear that someone else will try to harm or kill them or their families? People that preach hatred and violence towards those who are different from them SOMETIMES make me wish that there were limitations on free speech. However, I realize that would do more harm than good, so later, when I feel more rational, I dismiss the thought. Anyone may use the net if they have access, skinhead or otherwise. It's a free country. Likewise, if there are enough people that feel that a skinhead group is a good idea, there will be one. If discussion of it shows me that the neo- nazis are a distinct minority, and that the REAL skinheads are the good ones mentioned by several others, I'll vote FOR it. Otherwise, I'll vote AGAINST it. I have a right to my opinion, as you have a right to yours - my existance as an anal oriface notwithstanding. > John has asked for help to overcome the image > problem that skinheads seem to have - you better > find out what he's got in mind before you open > your mouth. > I call them as I see them. If I'm wrong, show me. Insulting me won't make me see your point. Fortunately, I'm a lot more open minded than you think, so it won't make me ignore you either. >Growl, >-- Feed your dog. > ,,,, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. >w \$$/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu > `/c/-e BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET >_/ >_ "Money is the root of all money" - Adam Have a nice day. Bob ============================///==================================== moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com /// "Winners are losers who got up and Plink: Moynihan \\\/// gave it just one more try." Hewlett-Packard/Apollo \XX/ -Dennis DeYoung
news@cs.odu.edu (News File Owner) (01/22/90)
a newsgroup, you still have not answered the original question: how does one go about forming a newsgroup?
jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) (01/22/90)
moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com (Robert Moynihan) wrote: >John de Armond wrote: >> I would like to start a newsgroup for and about skinheads. > The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. I suspect JdA's posting was a wind-up, and your spring is twanging just like he intended. In fact you're wrong. Most skinheads may be right-wing, but there is a substantial minority of left/anarchist skins as well (at least here in the UK). There was even a Trotskyist Oi! band once. -- Jack Campin * Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, SCOTLAND. 041 339 8855 x6044 wk 041 556 1878 ho INTERNET: jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk USENET: jack@glasgow.uucp JANET: jack@uk.ac.glasgow.cs PLINGnet: ...mcvax!ukc!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack
fischer@bimacs.BITNET (Yitzy Fischer) (01/25/90)
In article <1231@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. De Armond) writes: > >There is a great misunderstanding in this country, mostly caused by >wretched left wing media hacks, that the skinhead movement is a terribly >evil thing. > >This is wholly untrue ... >John I have read a number of articles about skinheads and their use of BBS's "to spread the word". I do not have the time or inclination to type in parts of what I read. If no more than 10% of what I read about the skinheads is true then I'd have to disagree with John. They don't sound like nice guys to me. Yitzy -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Internet: fischer@bimacs.biu.ac.il ^ | | Bitnet: fischer@bimacs (also s68606@barilvm) __/_\__ | | Arpa: fischer%bimacs.bitnet@wiscvm.wisc.edu \/ \/ | | Csnet: fischer%bimacs.bitnet%wiscvm.wisc.edu@csnet-relay /\ /\ | | Uucp: {mcvax,seismo}!humus!bimacs!fischer --\-/-- | | V | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
fischer@bimacs.BITNET (Yitzy Fischer) (01/25/90)
In article <2600@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) writes: >| >|The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. >|They tout the absurdity of white supremacy to the world as a way to make >|themselves feel that their inability to make anything of their lives is a >|result of some great "black consipracy", and not their unwillingness to work >|for their own betterment. For all intents and purposes, they are the teens >|of the KKK. >| > Hey, Bob (if that's really your name), listen up. > > YOU are a bigoted asshole. > > John has asked for help to overcome the image > problem that skinheads seem to have - you better > find out what he's got in mind before you open > your mouth. > >Growl, It seems that you have justed proved that Bob and the others are 100% correct about the skinheads. Yitzy -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Internet: fischer@bimacs.biu.ac.il ^ | | Bitnet: fischer@bimacs (also s68606@barilvm) __/_\__ | | Arpa: fischer%bimacs.bitnet@wiscvm.wisc.edu \/ \/ | | Csnet: fischer%bimacs.bitnet%wiscvm.wisc.edu@csnet-relay /\ /\ | | Uucp: {mcvax,seismo}!humus!bimacs!fischer --\-/-- | | V | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Relay-Version: Version 1.7 PSU-NETNEWS 5/20/88; site MAINE.BITNET Posting-Version: Version 1.7 PSU-NETNEWS 5/20/88; site MAINE.BITNET Path: psuvm!cunyvm!maine.bitnet!dow From: Michael R. Dow <DOW@MAINE.BITNET> Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers Subject: Looking for info/opinions on '90 Hyundai Sonata Message-ID: <DOW.90024071915@MAINE.BITNET> Date: Wednesday, 24 Jan 1990 07:19:15 EST My (soon-to-be) wife and I are looking for a car to replace her old and rusting Pontiac Sunbird. Now, this car has been OK, but not much more than that. We'll get 100,000 miles out of it before we sell it to someone in need without too much nickle and diming. So, last night I went out and looked at some cars. I already know what the Hondas are like, I tried the VW Jetta and didn't like it, the Toyota Camry is an ok car, but not impressive for the dollar. However, knowing nothing about Hyundais, I went and looked and was somewhat impressed with the Sonata. The dealer (a reasonably nice guy, even) says that the power train is a Mitsubishi power train. So, I'm looking for what you may have heard or experienced. It is a well priced car for its size and options. I'm not looking for any technological breakthroughs in suspension and handling - my fiancee isn't that kind of driver. Thanx. Michael R. Dow DOW@MAINE.BITNET
johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (01/25/90)
While not necessarily sympathetic to what most of us know as the skinheads,
I would be interested in finding out two things:
1. How does one start a newsgroup?
2. Was the original posting for real? (Several of the responses have
implied that it was, or should
have been, a joke.)bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce Becker) (01/26/90)
In article <4316@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes: |[...] | There was even a Trotskyist Oi! band once. Hmmm. Could you remember the name of that Oi! band? Just curious, -- ,,,, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. w \$$/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `/c/-e BitNet: BECKER@HUMBER.BITNET _/ >_ "Money is the root of all money" - Adam
fi038@zeus.unl.edu (01/26/90)
In article <48215758.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>, moynihan_r@apollo.HP.COM (Robert Moynihan) writes: > The media has nothing to do with it. Any time I've seen skinheads appearing > on television, they have displayed their vile natures all by themselves. They > needed no help from the media in showing what utterly wretched creatures they are. Unfortunately, the only people who have the balls to put skinheads on TV are psycho-babbling ass holes like Geraldo Rivera (sp?--like I care). What in the hell did he expect, with the white-supremist skins, a rabbi, and a rather large black man. That was asking for trouble (and I'd say he got it. . .). Had you pulled your head out of your ass long enough to notice, the majority of the skins (there were several in the audience) were not white-supremist, or skum bag, cest-infested bums. > The skinhead movement is a bunch of uneducated, racist juvenile delinquents. > They tout the absurdity of white supremacy to the world as a way to make > themselves feel that their inability to make anything of their lives is a > result of some great "black consipracy", and not their unwillingness to work > for their own betterment. For all intents and purposes, they are the teens > of the KKK. Again, obviously you don't understand what being a skin is all about. I am not an authority on the subject, nor am I a skin myself. But I do have a couple of freinds who are. One of them marched **against** the KKK in Washington DC a couple of years ago at the age of 16. This shows lots of responsibility, and also courage to stand up for what he believes in. How do you want him to better himself? He is a straight A student, has a job. and is very socially, politically, and mentally aware. True, for the most part, they can get very violent for their beliefs, but who can't. How would you feel if you were dicriminated against because of your hair style? I happen to have fairly long hair, and it infuriates me when I am looked down upon because of the length of my hair. Basically, to avoid their violence, treat them like people. > Spare us, please. This sort of bigoted trash the world can do without. Excuse me, oh wise one, but are you then favoring censorship? Do you think that just because **you** don't agree with someone else's feelings that they should be wiped out? You insignificant **prejudiced** bastard, we can do without you, too! > Bobby > ============================///==================================== > moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com /// "Winners are losers who got up and > Plink: Moynihan \\\/// gave it just one more try." > Hewlett-Packard/Apollo \XX/ -Dennis DeYoung Exactly what skins do, keep trying. They don't give up. Kevin (Fi038) In a night with no end, When the darkness descends, Fade to Black. Disclaimer: All spelling errors are the result of minor brain farts due to lack of sleep. But who really gives a damn, I'm not an English major!
johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (01/26/90)
Written 3:18 am Jan 24, 1990 by johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (yes, I wrote): > While not necessarily sympathetic to what most of us know as the skinheads, > I would be interested in finding out two things: > 1. How does one start a newsgroup? It was strongly pointed out that the answer to number 1 is posted regularly in the newsgroup "news.announce.newusers". > 2. Was the original posting for real? In response, grantham@math.lsa.umich.edu (Jon Grantham) writes > It appears that it was a forgery. Several people have contacted the poster > by e-mail & he denies ever posting it. Erik A. Johnson Graduate Student, Aero/Astro Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign johnsone@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
bei@puzzle.UUCP (Bob.Izenberg) (01/29/90)
In article <6971.25bf5ff1@zeus.unl.edu> fi038@zeus.unl.edu writes: >How >do you want him to better himself? He is a straight A student, has a job. >and is very socially, politically, and mentally aware. True, for the most >part, they can get very violent for their beliefs, but who can't. How >would you feel if you were dicriminated against because of your hair style? I understand that you're expressing it in terms that (probably, since we can't see you to tell how long your hair really is) have meaning to you. The hair issue is, not to belabor the obvious, about personal appearance. I don't pay much attention to the outside of a skinhead's head. It's the bad mix of ideas on the inside that's the problem. >Excuse me, oh wise one, but are you then favoring censorship? Do you think >that just because **you** don't agree with someone else's feelings that they >should be wiped out? You insignificant **prejudiced** bastard, we can do >without you, too! Spoken like a true brownshirt. And what's this "we" stuff? You're not a skinhead. remember? Anyway, obey the law of this country, don't infringe upon other people's civil liberties, and you can believe whatever kukka you like. -- Bob -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Izenberg [ ] Ralph Kirkley Associates ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bdb@becker.UUCP (02/02/90)
In article <4081@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> jseidman@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (James Seidman) writes: |[...] |Go ahead, flame me. You can't argue successfully with the media and |public opinion. First we get skinheads, then we get boneheads. You probably think Alien Nation is only on TV... -- Bruce Becker Toronto, Ont. Vox: +1 416 699 1868 Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP "Disinformation is FUN!" - kibo
billd@fps.com (Bill Davidson) (02/06/90)
In article <3240@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP writes: > First we get skinheads, > then we get boneheads. > You probably think Alien > Nation is only on TV... We already have the boneheads (have you read news.groups lately? ;-) I think we should just create alt.skinheads and see how much traffic we get. My bet is that it will be low. That way we can get rid of this junk in news.groups. Then when there's no traffic for a few months we can rmgroup it and tell the story to anyone who wants to create it again for years to come. --Bill