[fa.info-vax] VAX memory

info-vax@ucbvax.ARPA (03/14/85)

From: zar%xhmeia%hamlet.arpa@lbl.arpa

Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't set my WSMAX sysgen parameter
and all user's WSEXTENT quotas to the size of physical memory (excluding
system reserved memory). It seems to me that this should give a user all
physical memory if he has a program that needs it. The only drawback is
the increase of reserved system memory to account for raising the WSMAX
parameter (does anyone know how much this would be for a 4Meg mem system?).
Thanks in advance...

						From The Great
						     Zar

						Daniel Zirin
						Caltech Chem Dept
						(818) 356-6011

walton%Deimos@CIT-HAMLET.ARPA (09/07/85)

Here at Caltech astronomy we have two 780's, each equipped with 4Mb of
memory. One of them is sufficiently old that it has 16K chips on its
memory board, while the other has 64K chips.  My impression is that prices
for VAX memory are quite ridiculous.  The least expensive upgrade to 8 Mb
for both machines which anyone here has come up with is $24,000 or so,
which includes a new controller to allow 64K chips to be used in the older
machine and 12 Mb of memory boards with 64 Kb chips.  This is $2000 per
megabyte, which is something like 10 times what computer memory costs in
the IBM PC world.  Why??  Is it simply because DEC's prices are so high
that their competitors can charge high prices while still underselling
DEC?  I realize that VAX memory has to be error correcting and not just
error checking, and that it has to be faster than a PC's memory, but
still... (PDP-11 memory seems to be somewhat higher priced, as well.  I
have seen ads for 4 Mb on a single Q-bus board priced at $4000.)

A releted question is whether or not we have missed a trick--is there a
cheaper way to do this?  In particular, are there VAX memories made up of
256K bit chips?

What's the cheapest memory anyone out there has purchased for a 780?
Send to me directly, and I'll summarize to the net.

				Steve Walton
				Caltech Solar Astronomy
				BITNET: walton@citdeimo
				ARPAnet: swalton%deimos@cit-hamlet

W._Michael_Terenyi%QZCOM.MAILNET@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA (09/12/85)

VAX memories manufactured by National Semiconductor are
much chaeper than equivalent DEC memories.

Regards, Michael

OC.GARLAND%CU20B@COLUMBIA.EDU (Richard Garland) (09/19/85)

We have used National Semiconductor memory for years and had good
success.  They have socketed chips with extras on each board.  In about
10 Megabyte-years I've had to swap maybe 3 chips (there is a whole book
on how to do it).  The memory is not on service since the cost of
service for the warantee period (2 years) would buy a new board.  Furthermore
changing chips is about the only service I imagine will ever be needed
and I do that fine.  So consider the service cost "free".  (they promise 24
turn-around on boards returned under warantee.)

Other managers  whom I asked before buying this stuff all had found a different
supplier (about 5 vendors were mentioned) and all were happy.  Some have 
warantee periods of 5 years.

It looks like memory is one area where youcan't go far wrong.

By the way, another site at Columbia just did a 4 Meg/old controller
for 8 Meg /new controller deal with EMC and they are happy with cost
and performance.  Local DEC will service them also (DEC Field service
largesse extends at least from NYU to Columbia).

(If I were they, I would put the controller on contract and the memory
off contract as per above price vs. warantee comparison).

					Rg

PS -- How about a survey on the wonderful world of microVAX-II memory prices.
Now that's an exciting market (for users, pity the vendors). Rg
-------

PMANERA%NYBVX1.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA (09/19/85)

We upgraded our 780 from 4 megs of the old C-controller memory to 8 megs of
E-controller memory using all EMC hardware, i.e. memory, controller, backplane,
and power supply (they swap parts in the DEC memory power-supply box).  DEC
field service was on-site for the swap, but not "officially", if you will.

DEC does have an on-going relationship with EMC - both in and out of court.
Here in New York, field service WILL maintain EMC boards.  But given EMC's
responsivness, we cut a special labor-only contract against the
controller/backplane and "first board" of EMC memory.  This was just to
avoid any possible finger-pointing should there be problems.  I don't know
that this is any kind of policy, but DEC has made it one here in New York,
at our Center, if no where else.

As to cost, EMC's was very competitive.  We had purchased other memory from
Trendata (Standard Memories) with some success also, but EMC's prices were
better.  I've had one problem with one board since installation.  I started
logging soft errors, called EMC, they sent a new board out over night, I
swapped it in the next day, and that was that.

I recommend it.

Peter Manera
NYU - (212) 285-6184

walton%Deimos@CIT-HAMLET.ARPA (09/26/85)

Well, I have input on the subject of VAX memory.  Basically, it's expensive, but
I didn't realize how much we needed to buy.  To review and correct:  we would
like to upgrade two 780's from 4 to 8 Mb by buying a new backplane, controller,
power supply,
and an 8 Mb board for the one and move the old-style 4 Mb board to the expansion
chassis which is connected to the other machine.  Most of the $24,000 cost for
this is for the new backplane, controller, and power supply required.  So, the
cost of VMS memory is probably "only" 5 times as many $/bit as in the micro
world.	I received no messages on the whys of this disparity, except for
speculation that DEC's prices for memory are so high that other vendors can
undercut DEC and still charge alot and make a tidy profit.

					Caltech Solar Astronomy
					BITNET: swalton@citdeimo
					ARPAnet: walton%deimos@cit-hamlet