davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (David Guntner) (02/11/90)
From article <22210@unix.cis.pitt.edu}, by wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom): }In article <11369@attctc.Dallas.TX.US< davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (David Guntner) writes: }<From article <22187@unix.cis.pitt.edu}, by wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom): }<} }<} In article <11321@attctc.Dallas.TX.US< davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (David Guntner) writes: [Lots of stuff deleted....] }<} I am fairly new to the usenet. Yes, I have read news.announce.newusers, but }<} unlike some of you guys, I have not been able to memorize all the items. }<} It seems that on this present newsgroup, questions from virgin netters }<} are frequently greeted with "RTFM". The above response is typical, }<} smiley-face not withstanding. If you are bother to answer, why not }<} give the f**king answer , and then recommend RTFM (knowing, superior }<} smile on your face, no doubt). If you know it all but would rather not }<} tell, then get off this newsgroup. }< }<If your feelings are THAT touchy, then get off of Usenet altogether. You'll }<never survive. }< }<No one can memorize all the items, true. That's why it's a good idea to }<save the articles for future reference in your home directory, and then you }<can simply look it up. }< }<Granted, vetran Usenetters fairly typically answer with "RTFM" (with or }<without smileys), because SO MANY new users simply don't bother to do }<so (or even know that it's there (or where to look...) -- that's why I }<followed it up with information on where to look). It's been a while, but }<I believe the questions-and-answers article I mentioned even says at the }<beginning of it that it's purpose was in part to help stop the proliferation }<of the exact same (common) questions popping up over and over again. } }My point was that you could have given the answer AND refer the poster on to }news.announce.newusers. In fact, another, much more helpful, poster gave }the answer to "what is UNIX" shortly after your reply. If you and your ilk }find the simple questions too elementary for your consideration, don't clutter }up the network with vapid asininities. It's not smugness, as you sugested, it's experience. In real life, as well as on Usenet, I've found (and I'm sure there are other veteran users who will identify with this - certainly at least the ones who've had occation to reply with "RTFM"... 8-]) far too often that if someone asks a question which can be easily looked up and you give them the answer (and tell them about the "manual" where they can look it up), they never bother to do so. After all, why should they bother? They've gotten the answer they wanted. Whereas if you tell them to look it up first and THEN ask questions if they still have them, you end up benifiting them far more in the long run, because they end up retaining the information longer when they look it up themselves, and in the process of researching their question they learn other things as well (which they might have questioned later on, but now don't have to). So who's being more helpful? }As for my survival on Usenet, I'm doing quite well; thank you for your concern. }What I *will* avoid from now on, however, is this newsgroup, which seems to }contain more than its share of smug users who seem to think that they are part }of some hackers'gnosis. It'll be interesting to see what your attitude is like a year from now. We shall have to wait and see.... --Dave -- David Guntner UUCP: {ames, mit-eddie}!attctc!davidg INET: davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (killer) "...New ship, but she's got the right name. ...Treat --Admiral L. McCoy her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home." "Encounter at Farpoint"
berryh@udel.edu (John Berryhill) (02/11/90)
When I was barely able to read and I came across a word that I didn't know I would invariably ask my father. I can't recall a single time that my father actually told me the meaning of the word that I was after. He would always smile and say, "Look it up." Of course, along the way towards finding the word I was after, I would always come across many other words that I learned as well. The end result was a near perfect verbal SAT score. When people who ask questions here that are covered in news.announce.newusers it is usually indicative of their not having read news.announce.newusers. If they have read it and forgotten that their question is answered there, then they should probably give it another read. Furthermore, there are those who read this group who may not know of the existence of n.a.n. IMHO, BTW, my SO agrees with me :-) . -- John Berryhill 143 King William, Newark DE 19711
u-dmfloy%ug.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Daniel M Floyd) (02/11/90)
[..everything from everyone about RTFM edited out...] IMHO, the response 'RTFM' to a new user is in poor taste. It shows an arrogant attitude. It makes the assumption that they are inferior for even asking. This assumption may be true; but, pointing it out with 'RTFM' is offensive to many. (Please, note: I did *not* write that the assumption *is* true.) If you wish to direct someone to the manual, may I suggest, that it is possible to communicate such information, *without* implying disgust. Be that as it may, 'RTFM' will probably continue to be over used. Some things on the net don't seem to change. And I must, therefore, agree with the sentiment that you can't take the net too seriously. Dan Dan Floyd 8<D=
wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom) (02/12/90)
In article <10761@nigel.udel.EDU> berryh@udel.edu (John Berryhill) writes: > >When I was barely able to read and I came across a word that I didn't >know I would invariably ask my father. I can't recall a single time >that my father actually told me the meaning of the word that I was after. >He would always smile and say, "Look it up." Of course, along the >way towards finding the word I was after, I would always come across >many other words that I learned as well. The end result was a near >perfect verbal SAT score. (sigh) I wasn't going to post anything more on this already overlong thread ...( I know, I know, I helped start it) BUT, I just can't resist this one...... Did anyone else read the above post and immediately reacted with, " *SHEESH*, What a dickhead!" ? ---------------------------Bill
dan@charyb.COM (Dan Mick) (02/13/90)
In article <22256@unix.cis.pitt.edu> wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom) writes: |In article <10761@nigel.udel.EDU> berryh@udel.edu (John Berryhill) writes: |> |>When I was barely able to read and I came across a word that I didn't |>know I would invariably ask my father. I can't recall a single time |>that my father actually told me the meaning of the word that I was after. |>He would always smile and say, "Look it up." Of course, along the |>way towards finding the word I was after, I would always come across |>many other words that I learned as well. The end result was a near |>perfect verbal SAT score. | |(sigh) |I wasn't going to post anything more on this already overlong thread |...( I know, I know, I helped start it) | |BUT, I just can't resist this one...... | |Did anyone else read the above post and immediately reacted with, |" *SHEESH*, What a dickhead!" ? Gee, no, Bill, I *didn't* think "sheesh, what a dickhead", until I read *your* message!... Have problems with spelling and vocab? Have a low SAT? Got a feeling of severe insecurity and inadequacy? YOU SHOULD! Or is there some other reason you see fit to ridicule intelligent learning?
wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom) (02/13/90)
In article <365@charyb.COM> dan@charyb.UUCP (Dan Mick) writes: >Have problems with spelling and vocab? Have a low SAT? Got a feeling of >severe insecurity and inadequacy? No. Definitely not. No. > >YOU SHOULD! Found the "CapsLock" key at last? > >Or is there some other reason you see fit to ridicule intelligent learning? Why, yes, thank you for asking. Obtaining information by busy professionals is not the same as learning ABC's in kindergarten. It is silly to confuse the two. If you want to continue this asinine exchange, take it to alt.flame.
bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) (02/13/90)
In article <22256@unix.cis.pitt.edu> wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom) writes: : In article <10761@nigel.udel.EDU> berryh@udel.edu (John Berryhill) writes: : >When I was barely able to read and I came across a word that I didn't : >know I would invariably ask my father. I can't recall a single time : >that my father actually told me the meaning of the word that I was after. : >He would always smile and say, "Look it up." Of course, along the : >way towards finding the word I was after, I would always come across : >many other words that I learned as well. The end result was a near : >perfect verbal SAT score. : : (sigh) : I wasn't going to post anything more on this already overlong thread : ...( I know, I know, I helped start it) : : BUT, I just can't resist this one...... : : Did anyone else read the above post and immediately reacted with, : " *SHEESH*, What a dickhead!" ? I did not; in fact, I agree with him. And I think your attitude is completely inappropriate. There is no way you are going to get everyone to agree with you; trying merely raises the temperature in this newsgroup without generating any results. Feel free to flame someone (in e-mail, please), if the answer they give is literally RTFM; such abbreviations don't help the user who has never heard of them. But if someone is only willing to point out the right place to read, that is perfectly valid and useful advice; it is not your place to say otherwise. Followups have been directed to alt.dev.null. --- Bill { uunet | novavax | ankh } !twwells!bill bill@twwells.com
davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (David Guntner) (02/14/90)
From article <22292@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, by wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom): } In article <365@charyb.COM> dan@charyb.UUCP (Dan Mick) writes: } }>Have problems with spelling and vocab? Have a low SAT? Got a feeling of }>severe insecurity and inadequacy? } } No. Definitely not. No. }> }>YOU SHOULD! } } Found the "CapsLock" key at last? }> }>Or is there some other reason you see fit to ridicule intelligent learning? } } Why, yes, thank you for asking. Obtaining information by busy } professionals is not the same as learning ABC's in kindergarten. } It is silly to confuse the two. } } If you want to continue this asinine exchange, take it to alt.flame. What's the matter, Tom? You're more than willing to be critical (sp?) of others. You mean you can't take it as easily? I notice you have a habbit of insulting those whos opinions don't happen to match yours. VERY "professional" attitude you have there.... You said you weren't going to followup this discussion thread anymore even though you were the one responsible for it getting started. You should have stuck with your plan..... --Dave -- David Guntner UUCP: {ames, mit-eddie}!attctc!davidg INET: davidg@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (killer) "...New ship, but she's got the right name. ...Treat --Admiral L. McCoy her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home." "Encounter at Farpoint"
waw103@tijc02.UUCP (Alan Watson ) (02/15/90)
From article <22292@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, by wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom): > > ............................... Obtaining information by busy > professionals is not the same as learning ABC's in kindergarten. > I didn't realize "busy professionals" had time to read news.newusers.questions. waw
bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) (02/18/90)
In article <891@tijc02.UUCP> waw103@tijc02.UUCP (Alan Watson ) writes:
: From article <22292@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, by wct1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William C Tom):
: >
: > ............................... Obtaining information by busy
: > professionals is not the same as learning ABC's in kindergarten.
:
: I didn't realize "busy professionals" had time to read news.newusers.questions.
Some do. In fact, it was a busy professional who got this
newsgroup created. Me.
Followups have been directed to alt.dev.null.
---
Bill { uunet | novavax | ankh } !twwells!bill
bill@twwells.com