bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) (12/08/89)
If you _really_ want to stick it to the hoarders, get 'em where it _really_ hurts. UN*X is elite, but MiSeryDOS is ubiquitous. How's about if the FSF or some other outfit (say the "FPW" I suggest in another article) takes on a "NAND" project--"Not ANother DOS"? Something *FREE* that runs MSDOS and OS/2 programs. Something with a C compiler and a C++ compiler and a BASIC interpreter and a BASIC compiler and a whole slew of UN*X-like utilities. We've got the hard disk space, you know. There was a time when everybody had a friend who had developed a TRS-80 operating system. Well, everybody get together and develop a PC operating system. The utilities must be compilable under DOS and OS/2, and DOS and OS/2 programs must run on the system, with perhaps only minor twiddling (such as running them through a processor that modifies the .exe format slightly). The project would resemble the GNU project, at least on the surface. At least some of the utilities could be taken secondhand from the GNU project (and thus be bound by the copyleft). There are some GNU and other free utilities that come to mind readily: the GNU greps, awk, sed, indent; bison; flex; PAX; something using the ZIP format (that should be a challenge); FreEMACS (if the author is agreeable). The machines may be smaller, but that makes the challenge greater. What I've seen done on a miniscule TRS-80 makes me realise that an IBM-PC operating system can be a moderate marvel, and without being a memory hog. (The TRS-80 operating systems used a lot of disk overlays. 48K was enough to run a fairly powerful operating system and applications programs comfortably. The better systems let you use memory-based overlays if you had the room.) Lets start sharing _good_, _serious_ PC software. Let's have a _good_, _real_, _free_ development system. Let's go for NAND! -- Barry Schwartz, Chief SAPsucker bbs@cdspr.rutgers.edu Grad Student, Dept. of Elec. and Comp. Engg. bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu Rutgers University College of Engg. bbs@hankel.rutgers.edu Piscataway, NJ 08854 U.S.A. rutgers!cdspr!bbs
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (12/08/89)
In article <Dec.8.02.22.48.1989.11490@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) writes:
At least some of the utilities could be taken secondhand from the
GNU project (and thus be bound by the copyleft). There are some
GNU and other free utilities that come to mind readily: the GNU
greps, awk, sed, indent; bison; flex; PAX; something using the ZIP format
(that should be a challenge); FreEMACS (if the author is agreeable).
Freemacs is already covered by the copyleft.
--
--russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu])
Live up to the light thou hast, and more will be granted thee.
A recession now appears more than 2 years away -- John D. Mathon, 4 Oct 1989.
I think killing is value-neutral in and of itself. -- Gary Strand, 8 Nov 1989.
Liberals run this country, by and large. -- Clayton Cramer, 20 Nov 1989.
Shut up and mind your Canadian business, you meddlesome foreigner. -- TK, 23 N.meo@stiatl.UUCP (Miles O'Neal) (12/08/89)
In article <Dec.8.02.22.48.1989.11490@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) writes: | |If you _really_ want to stick it to the hoarders, |get 'em where it _really_ hurts. UN*X is elite, but MiSeryDOS |is ubiquitous. How's about if the FSF or some other outfit |(say the "FPW" I suggest in another article) takes on a "NAND" |project--"Not ANother DOS"? Something *FREE* that runs While I agree in principle, I'd FAR rather see the effort go into producing/distributing something that will wipe DOS off the face of the earth (and OS/2 with it). Even if that something has to carry the CopyLeft... 8^) -Miles O'Neal {yr fave backbone here}!emory!stiatl!meo
raburns%ecotopia@Sun.COM (Randy Burns) (12/09/89)
In article <Dec.8.02.22.48.1989.11490@elbereth.rutgers.edu> bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) writes: > >, >get 'em where it _really_ hurts. UN*X is elite, but MiSeryDOS >is ubiquitous. How's about if the FSF or some other outfit >(say the "FPW" I suggest in another article) takes on a "NAND" >project--"Not ANother DOS"? Something *FREE* that runs >MSDOS I personally think this is really quite an excellent idea, There are a *lot* of vendors that would jump at the chance to bundle even a *minimal* OS with there hardware. Secondly, the job will have to be done eventually if GNU is ever to use the wide variety of DOS programs that are out there right now. >and OS/2 programs. I'd put this at quite a lower priority. Something with a C compiler and a C++ >compiler and a BASIC interpreter and a BASIC compiler and a whole >slew of UN*X-like utilities. We've got the hard disk space, >you know. This might actually advance the industry in a signifcant way, particularly if there is some kind of nice windowing environment that would enable a pre-installed system to do something useful rapidly-Probably some kind of cross between MS Windows and X would be nice so that it could be binary compatible with Windows and support at least some limited X functionality (memory might be tight here). Even if the customers wanted to run straight, proprietary software in their shop, having something installed on the system when delivered could ease the setup process significantly.
bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) (12/09/89)
In article <NELSON.89Dec8093300@image.clarkson.edu> nelson@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: >Freemacs is already covered by the copyleft. This I know. I was talking of politeness, not legalities. Oh, I have been getting letters about NAND that seem to miss the point. I am not suggesting that MSDOS-OS/2 level PCs are the wave of the future. I am suggesting they are fun toys and would be more fun if we had some well coordinated free software project going. There was decent software being turned out for 8-bit micros well into the age of 16-bit micros. 8-bit micros remained fun. Also, there is always room for development software that can reside on prototypes of embedded systems--so FORTH would be a natural part of the NAND project, and other such software. NAND is not GNU. It is something related, but different. GNU is out there to produce a professional system. NAND is out there to produce a professional quality toy. No competition intended, Mr. Stallman. Keep up the good work. -- Barry Schwartz, Chief SAPsucker bbs@cdspr.rutgers.edu Grad Student, Dept. of Elec. and Comp. Engg. bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu Rutgers University College of Engg. bbs@hankel.rutgers.edu Piscataway, NJ 08854 U.S.A. rutgers!cdspr!bbs
bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu (some great stormfowl, whenever he has walked his while) (12/09/89)
In article <128965@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> raburns@sun.UUCP (Randy Burns) writes: >. . . the job will have to be done eventually if GNU is ever to use >the wide variety of DOS programs that are out there right now. I've just had a brainstorm. This one is for the computer people. (In case you hadn't noticed, I'm a digital signal processing engineer, not a computer expert.) You might face a "look and feel" lawsuit from Sun and crew, but it is a great idea. If your computers are all so hot, why not emulate the 8086 on them? Then GNU can have a MeSsyDOS window just like Roadrunner SunView does. On 80386 the emulation is particularly easy. I suggest the sub-DOS not require windows, though. I'm one of those who prefer command line OSs and being able to dial in from anywhere. (I did mention that my Roadrunner account comes up in Bash, not SunView, didn't I?) I'd sure love to be able to call up "DOS" from home, but you have to be on a SunStation running SunView. You could call it GNUDOS. All it takes is a few people who'd like to do it. Barry -- TRS-80 3/4-wizard MSDOS getting-to-know-it System V 1/10-wizard BSD know-something-about-it (Let's port GCC to the COSMAC VIP.) -- Barry Schwartz, Chief SAPsucker bbs@cdspr.rutgers.edu Grad Student, Dept. of Elec. and Comp. Engg. bschwart@elbereth.rutgers.edu Rutgers University College of Engg. bbs@hankel.rutgers.edu Piscataway, NJ 08854 U.S.A. rutgers!cdspr!bbs