[gnu.misc.discuss] rms says...

de5@ornl.gov (Dave Sill) (01/30/91)

 
In article <4607@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>
>Stallman's comments make it plain that he's not really interested in
>maximizing the reuse of software, as the GNU General Public [License] claims;
>rather, he's using it as a political weapon to further his utopia.

It means he's not willing to compromise his belief in the advantages
of Free software to benefit a group that doesn't share that belief.
To do otherwise would be counterproductive to his, and the FSF's,
goals.


>Hence,
>his software, far from being truly free, will continue carrying the cost of
>buying in to his utopian ideal of stamping out software ownership entirely.

Not selling someone else's product without their consent is hardly a
stiff price to pay.  You're asking people to not only give you their
code, but to give you their rights to it.

>I find it particularly ironic that he's using the FSF's ownership of its
>software to further his goals.

I find it rather clever that we're able to fight fire with fire.

>This still means that I cannot afford to have any GPV-protected code on my
>computer, since I cannot risk having the source of some of my income tainted
>by association with GPV code; whether or not it's infected by the GPV, I
>can't afford the legal representation I'd need to defend my rights in my
>programming.

This is sheer alarmist nonsense.  There's no more danger of
GNU-license legal challenges than there is from any other licensed
product.  In fact, I'd think a megabucks/megalawyer operation like
AT&T would be more likely to enforce it's System V source licensing.
Are you paranoid about *all* licensed code, or just GNU-licensed code?
If you sold source to your products, how would it be licensed, and
what protection would your customers have against it "infecting"
*their* product?

>This is a real shame, as there are good tools that are not
>acceptable only because of the licensing, and it's far more likely that I'll
>be able to reimplement them more easily than I could convince their authors
>(even those not directly associated with the FSF, such as Larry Wall) to
>license their code under non-utopian terms.

What's a shame is that you've got such a paranoia about the GNU
license that you won't even use any of the GNU tools.  Do you think,
perhaps, that a snippet of GNU code might inject itself into your
product?

I suspect that, in fact, you're really *not* that afraid, and you're
just trying to make a point.

--
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)	  It will be a great day when our schools have
Martin Marietta Energy Systems    all the money they need and the Air Force
Workstation Support               has to hold a bake sale to buy a new bomber.

chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (02/07/91)

According to jmaynard@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard):
>In article <27A6E9BA.2E94@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>Our rights to control our own programming are explicitly protected in
>>the few cases that really matter to me: output of GCC/G++ and files
>>edited by Emacs.
>
>Emacs and GCC: yes.
>G++: not when you link in their libraries.

I specifically omitted mention of libg++ because I don't use it, and I
don't expect ever to use it.  Why?  Two reasons: (1) I do not wish to
put all my C++ code under the GPL.  (2) I consider libg++ a botched
design -- one big inheritance tree is Smalltalk, not C++.  (The LGPL
may solve the former problem, but it will not solve the latter.)

(Yes, I need streams; I got it from InterViews, which is not
GPL-protected.)

>Why should the status of my code depend on what RMS had for breakfast?

Frivolous lawsuits, potential and actual, are everywhere.  I see no
reason to guard against this particular one.

Besides, the enforceability of the GPL is questionable.  Any lawyer
worth the name would avoid such a WOMBAT.  And RMS most certainly
would not spend money for the chance to have the GPL gutted by the
courts unless he were forced into action by a flagrant violator.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT     <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>
 "Most of my code is written by myself.  That is why so little gets done."
                 -- Herman "HLLs will never fly" Rubin

rjc@sole.cs.ucla.edu (Robert Collins) (02/08/91)

In article <27B177AF.2968@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>I consider libg++ a botched
>design -- one big inheritance tree is Smalltalk, not C++.

Gee, last time I checked, libg++ was a very wide forest, not a tree.
Maybe you should reevaluate libg++?

>Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT     <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>

rob

chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (02/10/91)

According to rjc@cs.ucla.edu (Robert Collins):
>In article <27B177AF.2968@tct.uucp> chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>I consider libg++ a botched design -- one big inheritance tree is
>>Smalltalk, not C++.
>
>Gee, last time I checked, libg++ was a very wide forest, not a tree.

Aargh.  As a kind person E-Mailed to tell me, I have confused the NIH
Class Library (a tree) with libg++ (a forest). Mea culpa.

I withdraw my technical complaint about libg++.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT     <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>
 "Most of my code is written by myself.  That is why so little gets done."
                 -- Herman "HLLs will never fly" Rubin