sutton@decus.com.au (Colin Sutton) (07/20/89)
I am always on teneterhooks reading news from home via dial-up modem, because if the line goes down, all the items I read are now unread again - and since people are often unimaginative with subjects, and my memory for item numbers is limited, I have to re-read lots of news. Not to mention I forget which newsgroups I have read. Couldn't the NEWSRC file be updated as the news is read? A good time to do this would be as soon as the item page has been displayed, just before the prompt for the next keyboard input. The time taken wouldn't be noticed. I assume that the file would be kept open, so it wouldn't take long to update. And news would be quicker to exit too - just close the file. -- Colin Sutton M.Sc. Decus Australia Languages and Tools SIG Librarian SUTTON@DECUS.COM.AU Development Manager - Wormald Control Systems Tel (61)(2)8887566 Centrecourt 25-27 Paul Street North NSW 2133 Australia Fax (61)(2)8874452
SLOANE@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) (07/24/89)
In article <430@decus.com.au>, sutton@decus.com.au (Colin Sutton) writes: > I am always on teneterhooks reading news from home via dial-up modem, > because if the line goes down, all the items I read are now unread again - > and since people are often unimaginative with subjects, and my memory for > item numbers is limited, I have to re-read lots of news. Not to mention I > forget which newsgroups I have read. > > Couldn't the NEWSRC file be updated as the news is read? A good time to do > this would be as soon as the item page has been displayed, just before the > prompt for the next keyboard input. The time taken wouldn't be noticed. I > assume that the file would be kept open, so it wouldn't take long to > update. And news would be quicker to exit too - just close the file. The problem you mention here is not just limited to NEWS. Many products, both from DEC and others, lose information when the user is disconnected during a session. The correct solution, IMHO, is to enable virtual terminals. Then the system manager can specify how long the connection should be held when the terminal is disconnected abnormally, say 5 minutes. That should give you plenty of time to dial back in and reconnect to the session. Then you can exit from NEWS, updating the NEWSRC file normally. Your proposed solution would slow NEWS down considerably. Think about how long it takes NEWS to exit now. Now think about it taking that long after every article read. Also, the continual updating of the NEWSRC file would increase the probability that you would be disconnected right in the middle of an update, thus trashing NEWSRC. Not a good idea. I am not sure if the UPDATE command forces a write of NEWSRC, but it might make sense for it to do so. Would it solve your problem if there were a command "UPDATE/NOREAD" which would just write the NEWSRC file out? +-------------------+-------------------------------------+------------------+ | Bob Sloane \Internet: SLOANE@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU/Anything I said is | | Computer Center \ BITNET: SLOANE@UKANVAX.BITNET / my opinion, not my | | University of Kansas\ AT&T: (913) 864-0444 / employer's. | +-----------------------+-----------------------------+----------------------+
lum@armadillo.cis.ohio-state.edu (Lum Johnson) (07/25/89)
> In article <430@decus.com.au>, sutton@decus.com.au (Colin Sutton) writes: >> I am always on teneterhooks reading news from home via dial-up modem, >> because if the line goes down, all the items I read are now unread again >> ... Couldn't the NEWSRC file be updated as the news is read? ... I assume >> that the file would be kept open, so it wouldn't take long to update. And >> news would be quicker to exit too - just close the file. Actually, the problem seems to be one of insufficient paranoia, and the approach you suggest is unfortunately exactly the one which would most exacerbate the problem, if it weren't already implemented. It seems that the file is already being kept open - and when something unexpected happens the file suffers the consequences. On our DEC-2060, using NEWS (5.2(1213)) and NNTP to get netnews from a Pyramid, if the Pyramid goes away unexpectedly, so _may_ your NEWSRC file. It happens fairly often. Therefore, I recommend to our users that they keep a backup copy, which is not exactly easy given the filename (^V^?^V[NEWS^V].NEWSRC). You _really_ want to open the file for read, slurp it up, and close it immediately. Then, when the file is safe, you may parse the text in the buffer at leisure. Engage the user in their chosen dialogue and maintain the state in the buffer. When the time comes, open the file for write, write it all, and close it immediately. Open files are very vulnerable; closed files are much more likely to survive any odd occurrence. If you want a command to update the NEWSRC file at the user's whim, then that should be reasonably easy to add, and its cost would be obvious to the user when they use it, so they could make a rational decision about how often to force an update. It is almost always best to do as little as possible without specific direction to do so, if for no other reason than to obey The Law of Least Surprise. -=- -- Lum Johnson lum@cis.ohio-state.edu lum@osu-20.ircc.ohio-state.edu "You got it kid -- the large print giveth and the small print taketh away." -------
gih900@UUNET.UU.NET (Geoff Huston) (08/01/89)
Re -- Reading news in a thunderstorm is hazardous.
>> In article <430@decus.com.au>, sutton@decus.com.au (Colin Sutton) writes:
>>> I am always on teneterhooks reading news from home via dial-up modem,
>>> because if the line goes down, all the items I read are now unread again
>>> ... Couldn't the NEWSRC file be updated as the news is read? ... I assume
>>> that the file would be kept open, so it wouldn't take long to update. And
>>> news would be quicker to exit too - just close the file.
>
>Actually, the problem seems to be one of insufficient paranoia, and the
>approach you suggest is unfortunately exactly the one which would most
>exacerbate the problem, if it weren't already implemented. It seems
>that the file is already being kept open - and when something unexpected
>happens the file suffers the consequences. On our DEC-2060, using NEWS
>(5.2(1213)) and NNTP to get netnews from a Pyramid, if the Pyramid goes
>away unexpectedly, so _may_ your NEWSRC file. It happens fairly often.
>Therefore, I recommend to our users that they keep a backup copy, which
>is not exactly easy given the filename (^V^?^V[NEWS^V].NEWSRC).
>
>You _really_ want to open the file for read, slurp it up, and close it
>immediately.
This is exaclty what NEWS already does - NEWS opens the NEWSRC file and reads
it in - then closes it.
> Then, when the file is safe, you may parse the text in the
>buffer at leisure. Engage the user in their chosen dialogue and maintain
>the state in the buffer. When the time comes, open the file for write,
>write it all, and close it immediately. Open files are very vulnerable;
>closed files are much more likely to survive any odd occurrence.
>If you want a command to update the NEWSRC file at the user's whim, then
>that should be reasonably easy to add, and its cost would be obvious to
>the user when they use it, so they could make a rational decision about
>how often to force an update. It is almost always best to do as little as
>possible without specific direction to do so, if for no other reason than
>to obey The Law of Least Surprise.
DIR/RESET does exactly this - it's a case of the wrong command name here!
NEWSRC was set up as a text file - not an indexed file - this is both good and
bad - the file contents may be changed using a text editor - BUT updates on the
fly are a complete dump of the NEWS variables into the file as text. It's all a
case of swings and roundabouts.
Geoff Huston
gih900@csc.anu.oz.auGPWRDCS@gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes, GPO) (08/04/89)
In article <430@decus.com.au>, sutton@decus.com.au (Colin Sutton) writes: > I am always on teneterhooks reading news from home via dial-up modem, > because if the line goes down, all the items I read are now unread again - > and since people are often unimaginative with subjects, and my memory for > item numbers is limited, I have to re-read lots of news. Not to mention I > forget which newsgroups I have read. You could always enable virtual terminals, so that when the line does go down, your process hangs around, secured by the fact the virtual terminal has disconnected from the physical line (ie you have to re-enter your username/password before you get an opportunity to log back on). Don Stokes, Systems Programmer / / Domain: don@gp.govt.nz Government Printing Office, /GP/ PSImail: PSI%0530147000028::DON Wellington, New Zealand / / UUCP: ...!munnari!vuwcomp!windy!gpwd!don -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they go by. - Douglas Adams.